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 r72rock
Learning to Grow
Registered: 01/07/09
Posts: 863
Loc: Chicago 
Last seen: 1 hour, 51 minutes
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 Right Speech 
#14380994 - 05/01/11 04:07 AM (2 years, 24 days ago) |
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I have a problem that I've noticed, that not only myself, but most others around me have. It's the issue that people talk behind other's backs. I put this here in the Spirituality and Mysticism because to me, it's a key in what I label as spirituality overall. (Also because it's a Buddhist Precept  )
This has been something that I've been trying to work on in myself for the past year and a half to two years. I've made small progress along the way, but to be honest to myself, I still feel like I'm a huge asshole for the most part. 
With surges in between of focus and determination to help myself with this problem, at which times I do, I for the most part fall back onto my conditioning and just start blabbin' my mouth about someone. And half the time, I'm not even fully conscious of what I'm saying, I'm just talking.
I know Right Speech may also include speaking truth, but I'm interested in the aspect of Right Speech that's not hurting others whether it be verbally, or even mentally. (I know sometimes if a guy cuts me off while I'm driving, I'll be quick to just label him as an asshole in my mind, but who am I to really judge? I know I've been in situations where I've been in a hurry to get somewhere, and have cut people off, but my intentions weren't trying to hurt the person that I was cutting off, I was just in a moment of hurry.)
I'm interested in what you guys understand as Right Speech, and the idea of talking behind peoples backs.
I mostly just feel helpless about it. I feel like I recognize this huge problem in my life, but I just end up falling victim to my conditioned habits.
Thoughts?
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Refraining from all evil, not clinging to birth and death, working in deep compassion for all sentient beings, respecting those over you and pitying those below you, without any detesting or desiring, worrying or lamentation - this is what is called Buddha. Do not search beyond it. - Dōgen
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ivander
Paragon of Animal
Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1,339
Last seen: 16 hours, 12 minutes
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Re: Right Speech [Re: r72rock]
#14381479 - 05/01/11 08:41 AM (2 years, 24 days ago) |
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IMO, if you became aware of this problem of yours, that would be one of the first steps toward its dismissal. You realize that you are in minority just because you became aware that you do act like that.. most people cant even make that first step.
My advice... if you focus yourself more on the moment.. you clod be more in touch with your emotions and your thoughts.. if you know what you feel, in the every given moment, then you don't have to act first and to feel later. Turn the autopilot off, and take control of your ride.... and if some guy cuts you off in traffic, judging him and marking him with labels wont help, cuz, you are not marking him, you are marking yourself.. cuz that little 'negative' thought only affects you..
If you judge others you will judge yourself also.. and if you can apply to yourself, that you are not making progress and that for the most part you are asshole... it will be easy also to project that onto others. What I want to say is.. you cant find solution to this box problem within the same box.. start treating your self better first, and then give same treatment to others.. look outside of the box for a moment .. 
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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. - Nietzsche
I've never faked a sarcasm in my life. True story.
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cbub
it
Registered: 10/17/10
Posts: 1,137
Last seen: 6 days, 6 hours
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Re: Right Speech [Re: r72rock]
#14381811 - 05/01/11 11:36 AM (2 years, 24 days ago) |
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Awesome, thumbs up for dealing with the issue. I found it's tightly knitted with the forgiving process. You will find inner peace forgiving everyone for everything, including yourself. Forgive everything for the past and for whatever happens in the future.
How does it feel?
It's a process, you'll get stuck in situations on impulse triggered by your ego. Expect to be tested and re-tested. You have enough time to work on it and don't worry about it, you have every right to be who you are and as you are.
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r72rock
Learning to Grow
Registered: 01/07/09
Posts: 863
Loc: Chicago
Last seen: 1 hour, 51 minutes
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Re: Right Speech [Re: cbub]
#14390864 - 05/02/11 09:55 PM (2 years, 23 days ago) |
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I like that. I should be more forgiving, mostly towards myself. But as you said, it's a process, and I'll just have to keep working at it. 
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Refraining from all evil, not clinging to birth and death, working in deep compassion for all sentient beings, respecting those over you and pitying those below you, without any detesting or desiring, worrying or lamentation - this is what is called Buddha. Do not search beyond it. - Dōgen
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r72rock
Learning to Grow
Registered: 01/07/09
Posts: 863
Loc: Chicago
Last seen: 1 hour, 51 minutes
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Re: Right Speech [Re: ivander]
#14390875 - 05/02/11 09:56 PM (2 years, 23 days ago) |
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For sure. I know I'm limiting myself into a subset (box) that doesn't have the solution that I'm looking for. I'll have to try your suggestion of focusing on myself, because if I'm in a situation like such, I'll hopefully realize that I'm just hurting myself.
Thanks for both of your guys' input. I'm still curious though, what do you guys think of talking behind other's backs? For a long time, I rationalized my action by saying, "people should be held responsible for their actions." But over time, I realized for myself that it does nothing but hurt everyone. 
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Refraining from all evil, not clinging to birth and death, working in deep compassion for all sentient beings, respecting those over you and pitying those below you, without any detesting or desiring, worrying or lamentation - this is what is called Buddha. Do not search beyond it. - Dōgen
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cbub
it
Registered: 10/17/10
Posts: 1,137
Last seen: 6 days, 6 hours
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Re: Right Speech [Re: r72rock]
#14392871 - 05/03/11 06:21 AM (2 years, 22 days ago) |
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What do I think about talking behind someone's back?
I don't really like this game, so I choose not to play it. I don't mind others doing it either, it's important they do whatever they want. It's my choice not to be hurt by it. I still love them. If someone is my friend, I know it's because I like them and accept them exactly as they are.
I agree with Albert in his thought 'Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people'
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It's fine.
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ivander
Paragon of Animal
Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1,339
Last seen: 16 hours, 12 minutes
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Re: Right Speech [Re: r72rock]
#14392975 - 05/03/11 07:29 AM (2 years, 22 days ago) |
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Its not really nice thing, IMO. If someone comes to me to talk, as you say of someone behind their back. Im like, 'hey I dont want to listen this, and I care not, if you have something to say about someone, go to them and say that to them, not to me'. If you realized its only hurtful, ask your self why are you like that? Do you like others talking about you like that. IF not.. only thing you can do is to be an example to others of what you feel is right.
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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. - Nietzsche
I've never faked a sarcasm in my life. True story.
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NastyDHL
breaking the cycles
Registered: 04/04/08
Posts: 3,455
Loc: here, now.
Last seen: 3 hours, 28 minutes
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Re: Right Speech [Re: r72rock]
#14394306 - 05/03/11 02:45 PM (2 years, 22 days ago) |
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it's all about compassion
if you speak about people 'behind their back' with the intention to merely bring to light things that you believe to be true but are inconvenient to another's perception of themselves then i don't think thats necessarily bad. its just keeping it real...
but if you are saying it without compassion and are just attempting to make yourself look better by comparison and attempting to (really what it all comes down to) make yourself feel more included by making another seem excluded then thats larval shit.
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r72rock
Learning to Grow
Registered: 01/07/09
Posts: 863
Loc: Chicago
Last seen: 1 hour, 51 minutes
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Right on. I do notice though, with how you were saying people keeping it real, that talking behind someone's back usually starts as that, but it eventually just comes down to "this person's stupid" or "They're doing it wrong." At least from my perspective.
I think it's good to bring things into light that you feel are a negative quality of another person. For example, if someone has a rude action every time you say hi to them. I think it's good to point that out when you're talking about that person to someone else because then you know that you aren't the only one affected by it, but at the same time, it just ends there. There are never any means to keep pursuing it to help that person that's being talked about solve the issue. It usually just ends there, and most people say, "yeah... whatever, he's dumb." Or something along those lines. 
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Refraining from all evil, not clinging to birth and death, working in deep compassion for all sentient beings, respecting those over you and pitying those below you, without any detesting or desiring, worrying or lamentation - this is what is called Buddha. Do not search beyond it. - Dōgen
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r72rock
Learning to Grow
Registered: 01/07/09
Posts: 863
Loc: Chicago
Last seen: 1 hour, 51 minutes
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Re: Right Speech [Re: cbub]
#14399402 - 05/04/11 01:09 PM (2 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
ivander said:
Its not really nice thing, IMO. If someone comes to me to talk, as you say of someone behind their back. Im like, 'hey I dont want to listen this, and I care not, if you have something to say about someone, go to them and say that to them, not to me'. If you realized its only hurtful, ask your self why are you like that? Do you like others talking about you like that. IF not.. only thing you can do is to be an example to others of what you feel is right.
 I'd like to redirect them to the person that they're talking about, and sometimes if I'm talking about someone that I have a problem with, I'd like to go directly to the source and solve it, but I always feel like that's such a tough situation. I wouldn't know how to tell someone. I feel like there'd be a fine line between being rude and telling them how I feel.
I totally like the way you ended that though. I guess right now, I don't mind being talked about behind my back just because I feel guilty for doing it to others, and I kinda feel like it's deserved.
Quote:
cbub said:
What do I think about talking behind someone's back?
I don't really like this game, so I choose not to play it. I don't mind others doing it either, it's important they do whatever they want. It's my choice not to be hurt by it. I still love them. If someone is my friend, I know it's because I like them and accept them exactly as they are.
I agree with Albert in his thought 'Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people'
That is a great quote. I'm going to try throughout my day to take all of your guy's advice, because I really feel that it's good. Thank you guys so much for your input. I'm going to not play the game, as cbub said, and focus on my self in such situations and see it as a reflection of myself, and be more compassionate and forgiving of myself and others. 
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Refraining from all evil, not clinging to birth and death, working in deep compassion for all sentient beings, respecting those over you and pitying those below you, without any detesting or desiring, worrying or lamentation - this is what is called Buddha. Do not search beyond it. - Dōgen
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MAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 6,866
Loc: Erra - 20 Tauri - M45 Sta...
Last seen: 13 days, 23 hours
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Re: Right Speech [Re: r72rock]
#14399666 - 05/04/11 02:13 PM (2 years, 21 days ago) |
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Just think about removing yourself from the equation. Anything you're about to say which affects the situation in one way or another should be avoided. Speak to yourself using your thoughts but don't verbalize. Just be aware of this when/if you talk. Takes time and patience but you'll get there.
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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala
 
Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire
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