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FrequentFryer
NuggetTester
Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 350
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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1 Pint BRF Cakes
#14214982 - 03/31/11 01:56 PM (13 years, 22 hours ago) |
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Alright, so i have 2 half pint brf jars going right now. I've done alot of reading on the B+ strain and i came to the concusion that its a slow colonizer. I was proved wrong. Now, i inoculated a half pint reg mouth jar 8 days ago and its at about 75% on the outside of the cake. I flipped it yesterday and it appears the mycelium is growing uprwards towards the bottom of the cake. Any thoughts on flipping cakes? I've left it upside down since i've flipped it.. Anyways, after seeing how fast these jars are colonizing i decided to try a one pint jar. (Less work more yield are my thoughts) The jars are at a constant 80-85 degrees F. Im gonna use 1.5-2 cc's of B+ from ralphsters.. (Great fucking spore bank i'll be ordering from him again soon) Anyone have any good results with 1 pinters? Yields!? Cheers guys
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skyjohnny
Natural Mystic
Registered: 04/21/10
Posts: 200
Loc: Secret Underground Labora...
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I prefer the 1 pt jars and with a good syringe what you're suggesting should be plenty. Go for it!
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kdmmontana
Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1,114
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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you need jars with straight edges to get the cakes out. (or you can do as I did when my jars proved to be f**ked up, I smashed the f**kers...:P) However, I am somewhat careless...haha.
You dont need to flip BRF cakes at all.
Mycelium will grow towards nutrients and water. Gravity has obviously pulled water downwards and when you flipped it the water stayed up there, causing the mycelium to shift direction. Thats just my logic:P To me, this suggests uneven water content. Watch them closely...
A hint:
A good way to ease the colonization process is to make sure you have a balanced substrate and dont skip out on sterilization times:) Work on your substrate mixes and find one thats good for you and try to keep a certain standard, wisk around to check for water or air pockets. Mix it well.
Edited by kdmmontana (03/31/11 02:12 PM)
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FrequentFryer
NuggetTester
Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 350
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Quote:
kdmmontana said: you need jars with straight edges to get the cakes out. (or you can do as I did when my jars proved to be f**ked up, I smashed the f**kers...:P)
You dont need to flip BRF cakes at all.
Mycelium will grow towards nutrients and water. Gravity has obviously pulled water downwards and when you flipped it the water stayed up there, causing the mycelium to shift direction. Thats just my logic:P
A question, you did sterilize the jars I hope. I can see that it must be hard to sterilize that much substrate. Did you use a pressure cooker?
Yup, all my jars are straight edged. I've done a metric shit ton of research lol, goin to bed thinking about spawning brf cakes to hpoo and waking up thinking about how many cakes my fc will fit haha. Yes, for sterilization i boil/steam half pinters for 1-1.5 hours and i'm boiling this one pinter right now for two hours. I put a nice thick half inch dry verm layer on the top aswell. No problems with contams yet, steady growth from both jars..
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kdmmontana
Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1,114
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Quote:
FrequentFryer said:
Quote:
kdmmontana said: you need jars with straight edges to get the cakes out. (or you can do as I did when my jars proved to be f**ked up, I smashed the f**kers...:P)
You dont need to flip BRF cakes at all.
Mycelium will grow towards nutrients and water. Gravity has obviously pulled water downwards and when you flipped it the water stayed up there, causing the mycelium to shift direction. Thats just my logic:P
A question, you did sterilize the jars I hope. I can see that it must be hard to sterilize that much substrate. Did you use a pressure cooker?
Yup, all my jars are straight edged. I've done a metric shit ton of research lol, goin to bed thinking about spawning brf cakes to hpoo and waking up thinking about how many cakes my fc will fit haha. Yes, for sterilization i boil/steam half pinters for 1-1.5 hours and i'm boiling this one pinter right now for two hours. I put a nice thick half inch dry verm layer on the top aswell. No problems with contams yet, steady growth from both jars..
I like that....hehe Metric tons of research.. Then I shall say ive done CUBIC tons of it..just to match you..hehe:)
"going to bed thinking.." That sounds like me man..hahah..When I cant sleep..I just keep thinking of one of my cakes..or cake after cake going by on a conveyor belt..hahaha..grow grow grow...grow grow grow..zzz..zzz
About the substrate: As I see it, I follow the mycelium from first day of life to last, I dont see stages I think of it as a complete life cycle. Thats just me being quirky but Ive found that the substrate is a HUGE factor to quality, so I put a lot of energy into it:) I can see you will have lots of success. Please post some pictures:)
I grow 125 ml cakes:) Mini cakes..heheh
Also, gypsum and coffee are wonderful nutrients and they will give the cakes a great boost!..
With love
kdmmontana..
Edited by kdmmontana (03/31/11 02:36 PM)
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penhed
spawniac
Registered: 11/28/10
Posts: 863
Loc: holding the axis
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cool...do you have a gb...do you have plans for lc...pc.. 85 may be to hot...room temps are fine
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FrequentFryer
NuggetTester
Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 350
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Quote:
FrequentFryer said:
Quote:
kdmmontana said: you need jars with straight edges to get the cakes out. (or you can do as I did when my jars proved to be f**ked up, I smashed the f**kers...:P)
You dont need to flip BRF cakes at all.
Mycelium will grow towards nutrients and water. Gravity has obviously pulled water downwards and when you flipped it the water stayed up there, causing the mycelium to shift direction. Thats just my logic:P
A question, you did sterilize the jars I hope. I can see that it must be hard to sterilize that much substrate. Did you use a pressure cooker?
Yup, all my jars are straight edged. I've done a metric shit ton of research lol, goin to bed thinking about spawning brf cakes to hpoo and waking up thinking about how many cakes my fc will fit haha. Yes, for sterilization i boil/steam half pinters for 1-1.5 hours and i'm boiling this one pinter right now for two hours. I put a nice thick half inch dry verm layer on the top aswell. No problems with contams yet, steady growth from both jars..
Quote:
kdmmontana said:
Quote:
FrequentFryer said:
Quote:
kdmmontana said: you need jars with straight edges to get the cakes out. (or you can do as I did when my jars proved to be f**ked up, I smashed the f**kers...:P)
You dont need to flip BRF cakes at all.
Mycelium will grow towards nutrients and water. Gravity has obviously pulled water downwards and when you flipped it the water stayed up there, causing the mycelium to shift direction. Thats just my logic:P
A question, you did sterilize the jars I hope. I can see that it must be hard to sterilize that much substrate. Did you use a pressure cooker?
Yup, all my jars are straight edged. I've done a metric shit ton of research lol, goin to bed thinking about spawning brf cakes to hpoo and waking up thinking about how many cakes my fc will fit haha. Yes, for sterilization i boil/steam half pinters for 1-1.5 hours and i'm boiling this one pinter right now for two hours. I put a nice thick half inch dry verm layer on the top aswell. No problems with contams yet, steady growth from both jars..
I like that....hehe Metric tons of research.. Then I shall say ive done CUBIC tons of it..just to match you..hehe:)
"going to bed thinking.." That sounds like me man..hahah..When I cant sleep..I just keep thinking of one of my cakes..or cake after cake going by on a conveyor belt..hahaha..grow grow grow...grow grow grow..zzz..zzz
About the substrate: As I see it, I follow the mycelium from first day of life to last, I dont see stages I think of it as a complete life cycle. Thats just me being quirky but Ive found that the substrate is a HUGE factor to quality, so I put a lot of energy into it:) I can see you will have lots of success. Please post some pictures:)
I grow 125 ml cakes:) Mini cakes..heheh
Also, gypsum and coffee are wonderful nutrients and they will give the cakes a great boost!..
With love
kdmmontana..
Right on mann! Yeah i'm tryin to figure out how to get pics up on here without using my phone, its a smart phone and geotags all of my pics. Don't want any of that shit.. Yeah forsure i know what you mean, just coming into all this shit its a really intriguing process that not very many practice depending on where you live. I love it. I have another syringe of australian that im gonna get goin once i birth these guys. Also 85 would be max i usually air the box out if it get that high, i've heard the internal heats from colonization are a couple degrees higher blahblahh. There chillin at 80 even right now. Much thanks for the replys!
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gofudgeyourself
Student
Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 710
Loc:
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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make sure you keep the jar lids/verm layer able to breathe..meaning dont flip them on a flat surface...and im not sure that would help, maybe if theyre packed too tightly it would give room on the sides? dunno, never tried flipping cake jars...
and i use pint and half pint jars, pints take longer to colonize but fruit more cake for cake and are a better use of FC real estate. a rule of thumb; more surface area = more yield. meaning youre missing an entire top of a cake when you pick pints over half pints. however you can fit the same amount of half pints as pints in a FC. not really a huge deal, they both work, i prefer half pints for faster colonization.
-------------------- "believe it if you need it, or leave it if you dare." "turn all the hate in the world, into a mocking bird. make it fly away"
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SomeGuy
I feel better now :)
Registered: 04/18/10
Posts: 7,496
Loc:
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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I generally get 5-7 grams per flush off of the pints
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FrequentFryer
NuggetTester
Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 350
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: 1 Pint BRF Cakes [Re: SomeGuy]
#14215580 - 03/31/11 03:47 PM (13 years, 20 hours ago) |
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Quote:
paducahovoids said: I generally get 5-7 grams per flush off of the pints
That looks like a fairly good pinset for not rolling it. The main things i've learned to increase yield for cakes so far is dunk/roll then put a nice little pile of verm on top. As far a me flipping my jar, yeah i took the air flow aspect into consideration and put to nice little block under the jar to get some air flow. They have a nice airy consistancy to them i think im just getting a little impatient. I'll be innoc'ing this pint cake tonight, you guys think 6 hours is long enough for it to cool off? it might still be holding some internal heat still after 6 hours.
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kdmmontana
Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1,114
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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"more surface area = more yield. meaning youre missing an entire top of a cake when you pick pints over half pints"
Not true to the letter. Ive cut 125 ml BRF cakes in half, thus increasing the surface area significantly and had great yields. The mycelium can generally fruit from all directions, given it has enough water and is of enough quantity. Ive created cake slices, coated in verm and they both grew after placement in the FC and one of those trial cakes even fruited. That is, three cake slices on top of each other with a middle layer of Verm in between each one.
here take a look.
Ive found that the mycelium seems to use its resources to attach to its neighbouring cake slices. The amount of fruited mycelium is less than 60 ml give it a take.
My point is that One can easily create surface layer by simply cutting the cakes in half or placing them on their sides. I had isues with space one and bottom pinning. I doubled the yield of the cake by just tippin it over, exposing both surfaces..
If the mycelium is harmed, it will heal itself over time. I have not seen proof of that this impacts fruiting. So far, the rule: Dont handle the cakes too much after taking them out of the jars seems to be the biggest rule.
I used to rinse and wash them before I dunked and rolled them, thus rubbing away that fluffy mycelium on their outside. Not good. I have stopped rinsing the cakes all together and I found that they grew faster that way (at least in my case) after placement in the FC..
Edited by kdmmontana (03/31/11 04:11 PM)
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OneU
Registered: 03/19/11
Posts: 763
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
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A lot of people suggested to not do pint jars to me. I had 12 and gave 9 away, now I'm getting half-pints in the mail tomorrow. the think with it is that since gravity pulls down the nutrients and liquid, it will either go very slow at the bottom or stall. i'm sure if you tried it (i'll probably do one) you can counter-manifest it
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FrequentFryer
NuggetTester
Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 350
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Quote:
kdmmontana said: "more surface area = more yield. meaning youre missing an entire top of a cake when you pick pints over half pints"
Not true to the letter. Ive cut 125 ml BRF cakes in half, thus increasing the surface area significantly and had great yields. The mycelium can generally fruit from all directions, given it has enough water and is of enough quantity. Ive created cake slices, coated in verm and they both grew after placement in the FC and one of those trial cakes even fruited. That is, three cake slices on top of each other with a middle layer of Verm in between each one.
here take a look.
Ive found that the mycelium seems to use its resources to attach to its neighbouring cake slices. The amount of fruited mycelium is less than 60 ml give it a take.
My point is that One can easily create surface layer by simply cutting the cakes in half or placing them on their sides. I had isues with space one and bottom pinning. I doubled the yield of the cake by just tippin it over, exposing both surfaces..
If the mycelium is harmed, it will heal itself over time. I have not seen proof of that this impacts fruiting. So far, the rule: Dont handle the cakes too much after taking them out of the jars seems to be the biggest rule.
I used to rinse and wash them before I dunked and rolled them, thus rubbing away that fluffy mycelium on their outside. Not good. I have stopped rinsing the cakes all together and I found that they grew faster that way (at least in my case) after placement in the FC..
This is some good info man, im diggin it I was thinking about chopping my cakes directly in half then giving em a coat of verm and laying them on there flat sides in the fc. Would this increase my yield? Its pretty much the same surface area as a reg cake it will take up alot more space in my fc though. Is it worth it?
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kdmmontana
Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1,114
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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No no hell no!
I am saying it is POSSIBLE to do this, but you shouldnt damage the mycelium for no good. What you are seeing above in the pictures is just an experiment. The reason I chopped my cake, was because I had violent underside pinning and I wanted to have yield (it was performing poorly) You should always try to keep the cakes whole for all reasons..slicing them WILL NOT INCREASE yields, it will allow more of the cake to produce fruit but the total amount of flushes will lessen. The mycelium can only live for so long.
The discussion was concerning what people calls "surface layer" and it is a common concept that this applies to some or one side of a cake. My experiment proves that mycelium really can be tweaked in whatever way for fruiting IN CAKE FORM, rather than fruiting in bulk (crumbling and casing)
My concern was the ability for the cakes to heal and still produce fruit, stress test and alike.
Dont take this as advice that you should damage the mycelium..ahh im gettn bashed for this..:P
It is just an experiment..
But thanks for reading:)
Edited by kdmmontana (03/31/11 04:50 PM)
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penhed
spawniac
Registered: 11/28/10
Posts: 863
Loc: holding the axis
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if you want to cut,slice,etc...go ahead crumble them to a sub that will hold water/nutes and get more.... hpoo/coir/worm/gypsum
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FrequentFryer
NuggetTester
Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 350
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Alright okay i got ya guys But yeah the funny thing is i have a whole little horse field 30 feet from my living room. Aged-fresh shit for dayss. Its covered by a couple feet of snow right now so thats not really an option atm. I was thinking about doing a couple small casing but i think im gonna go ahead and fruit these guys as cakes. Then when i get ahang of everything a little bit more ill do a nice little mono tub with some horse poo/brf cakes/some added verm. I have a good feeling about this one pinter forsure though, maybe i should try the aust. cubensis isntead of B+ in hopes ill get some faster colonization? Ralphster sent me some good syringes.. Tons of floating spores with a nice fat clump floating around. Did like 20 minutes of shaking before i inocced
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gofudgeyourself
Student
Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 710
Loc:
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
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Quote:
kdmmontana said: "more surface area = more yield. meaning youre missing an entire top of a cake when you pick pints over half pints"
Not true to the letter. Ive cut 125 ml BRF cakes in half, thus increasing the surface area significantly and had great yields. The mycelium can generally fruit from all directions, given it has enough water and is of enough quantity. Ive created cake slices, coated in verm and they both grew after placement in the FC and one of those trial cakes even fruited. That is, three cake slices on top of each other with a middle layer of Verm in between each one.
here take a look.
Ive found that the mycelium seems to use its resources to attach to its neighbouring cake slices. The amount of fruited mycelium is less than 60 ml give it a take.
My point is that One can easily create surface layer by simply cutting the cakes in half or placing them on their sides. I had isues with space one and bottom pinning. I doubled the yield of the cake by just tippin it over, exposing both surfaces..
If the mycelium is harmed, it will heal itself over time. I have not seen proof of that this impacts fruiting. So far, the rule: Dont handle the cakes too much after taking them out of the jars seems to be the biggest rule.
I used to rinse and wash them before I dunked and rolled them, thus rubbing away that fluffy mycelium on their outside. Not good. I have stopped rinsing the cakes all together and I found that they grew faster that way (at least in my case) after placement in the FC..
you just confirmed what i said. more surface area = more yield. consider this; 1 pint = 2 1/2 pints, if done with 1/2 pint jars in the first place would colonize faster than a 1 pint jar..what youre doing is actually counter productive...to each their own tho.
tipping a cake over would just exchange the side surface for the bottom surface. either way you look at it, assuming you dont suspend your cakes in mid air, they have to sit on one of their sides/bottoms/tops.
Quote:
Ive found that the mycelium seems to use its resources to attach to its neighbouring cake slices.
also, wtf? youre cutting the cakes, the mycelium is using nutes that COULD be used to fruit..to repair itself..how is cutting a cake beneficial?
-------------------- "believe it if you need it, or leave it if you dare." "turn all the hate in the world, into a mocking bird. make it fly away"
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FrequentFryer
NuggetTester
Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 350
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Alright guys heres some pics. The less colonized one is at 3 days after innoc i think and the one thats further along is at 8 days today. Both B+. Also my 2010 outdoor plant. Tell me what you think
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kdmmontana
Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1,114
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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Quote:
gofudgeyourself said:
Quote:
kdmmontana said: "more surface area = more yield. meaning youre missing an entire top of a cake when you pick pints over half pints"
Not true to the letter. Ive cut 125 ml BRF cakes in half, thus increasing the surface area significantly and had great yields. The mycelium can generally fruit from all directions, given it has enough water and is of enough quantity. Ive created cake slices, coated in verm and they both grew after placement in the FC and one of those trial cakes even fruited. That is, three cake slices on top of each other with a middle layer of Verm in between each one.
here take a look.
Ive found that the mycelium seems to use its resources to attach to its neighbouring cake slices. The amount of fruited mycelium is less than 60 ml give it a take.
My point is that One can easily create surface layer by simply cutting the cakes in half or placing them on their sides. I had isues with space one and bottom pinning. I doubled the yield of the cake by just tippin it over, exposing both surfaces..
If the mycelium is harmed, it will heal itself over time. I have not seen proof of that this impacts fruiting. So far, the rule: Dont handle the cakes too much after taking them out of the jars seems to be the biggest rule.
I used to rinse and wash them before I dunked and rolled them, thus rubbing away that fluffy mycelium on their outside. Not good. I have stopped rinsing the cakes all together and I found that they grew faster that way (at least in my case) after placement in the FC..
you just confirmed what i said. more surface area = more yield. consider this; 1 pint = 2 1/2 pints, if done with 1/2 pint jars in the first place would colonize faster than a 1 pint jar..what youre doing is actually counter productive...to each their own tho.
tipping a cake over would just exchange the side surface for the bottom surface. either way you look at it, assuming you dont suspend your cakes in mid air, they have to sit on one of their sides/bottoms/tops.
Quote:
Ive found that the mycelium seems to use its resources to attach to its neighbouring cake slices.
also, wtf? youre cutting the cakes, the mycelium is using nutes that COULD be used to fruit..to repair itself..how is cutting a cake beneficial?
First off, No; more surface area will not create more yield without a nutritional substrate (I was talking about cakes themselves, which have limited life) so you must have misread me there. I had a cake that was pinning on both sides so because of issues related to sheer space, meaning that the mushies could not fruit properly (yeah they disnt have actual space to develop) I pushed the cake over. Its a physical quality, not related to the mycelium.
FYI I wasnt referring to colonization, only to fruiting but I understand your point. What I was interested in was mainly trying the capability of cakes (which are best left unharmed) What I did to one of mine was a shrewd measure, it wasnt a standard thing at all; just purely experimental. I want to learn all about those cakes:)
"tipping a cake over would just exchange the side surface for the bottom surface. either way you look at it"
You have to take into account space itself. There is far more space laying a cake on its round side than placing it on its butt so to speak, but that is relative to where your pinsets develop. I only moved and toppled my cakes because pinsets were developing in all the wrong places. I didnt touch them to increase yields..
My experiment was related to mycelium itself and its capabilities of healing as such. I knew there wasnt gonna be any huge results but I am still learning:) So its all good:)
"also, wtf? youre cutting the cakes, the mycelium is using nutes that COULD be used to fruit..to repair itself..how is cutting a cake beneficial?"
What I stated was this; one CAN cut a cake and get away with it..dont get pissy on me here, I clearly stated my case back there and I never said ITS A GOOD THING to cut cakes. Most of what I have done was experimental and for fun, I havent recommended it to anyone at all, for no reason. All I mentioned was that I did it..just to clear that issue.
I know whatever left over energy not used for fruiting will be used for veg state or repair, its natural but the thing still is that were tweaking nature. The best option is still Bulk, cakes are exposed more and suffer from what I call man made surroundings. A bulk will always perform better since its a copy of nature, a cake is a shrewd replacement for nature, covered with Verm..sigh..no but If we could just bury our cakes into soil it would produce even more mushrooms, but as I mentioned. I was trying to look at what the cakes as such could perform... Not trying to destroy science here. I know what I am doing so far.
I just wanted to explain myself so there are no misunderstandings. Regularly, one doesnt need to damage cakes or cut them, I just did it to try it out and I wanted to find out what kind of treatment the mycelium could stand/stress etc. I wasnt outlining a fruiting method..
But thank you for the reply anyways, I can see how it could be hard to disseminate between whats right and whats wrong. I will try to be more clear next time.
Until then; lots of Love
/kdmmontana
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FrequentFryer
NuggetTester
Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 350
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Alright, well i just innoc'd my pint jar. Feel like such an idiot. I took extra cation on sterilization with this jar and i forgot to sterilize the needle before i innoc'd I'll just cross my fingers and hope it doesn't contam.. I sterilized it last time i use it and it never came in contact with an unsterile surface.. How long before i see contams if there is any? A couple fat spore clumps got shot into the jar, if it doesn't contam it should be good.. Ughh.
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