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 durantz
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 Is homosexuality a mental illness? 
#14167126 - 03/22/11 09:49 PM (13 years, 28 days ago) |
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I am proposing that homosexuality is a mental illness (this is not a new theory but it seems to have been dropped due to political correctness)
The reason for my proposal is that if homosexuality was genetic then it would have been selectively eliminated from the gene pool. And with estimates of 10% of the population being homosexual it is very unlikely that there is a genetic cause for this.
I believe that the upbringing of a child causes mental problems that, unless they are correctly resolved, result in the person growing up to be a homosexual. Once the homosexual begins receiving sexual gratification from the same sex they are 'rewarded' which further reinforces the homosexual behaviour.
When this process is repeated enough times the individual has become conditioned to respond sexually to the same sex in much the way that Pavlov conditioned his dogs.
Please discuss.
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 OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
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Re: Is homosexuality a mental illness? [Re: durantz] 3
#14167175 - 03/22/11 09:57 PM (13 years, 28 days ago) |
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Any discussion will require the presenting or arguments for or against - and you stated that you find that distasteful.
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sk8fast
Tripping skater
Registered: 08/02/10
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Homosexuality is not a mental illness. Other animals practice homosexuality.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
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Re: Is homosexuality a mental illness? [Re: sk8fast] 1
#14167275 - 03/22/11 10:18 PM (13 years, 28 days ago) |
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Are you certain that no animal besides a human being may be mentally ill?
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1tokeovrtheline
life=painfully beautiful
Registered: 04/12/10
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have you ever heard of recessive traits or genetic mutations, or perhaps considering that some gay dudes throughout all these years have possibly acted straight and had kids despite being gay?
I personally think its just a psychological thing that can be genetic but probably doesn't have a specific gene or anything, its just kind of the way your personality and psychology is and how it relates to how you think about sex. it seems to me that most people attracted to guys find sex to be about power, confidence, and other things that in our culture would give them more of an attraction toward the western view of masculinity. nothing wrong with that if you ask me.
btw you should look into cultural anthropology, it takes issues like this and looks throughout the world to see if it truly is a biological thing shared throughout all humanity or if it is more a cultural idea with no scientific basis. Homosexuality and the american ideal of masculinity certainly is one of these things-did you know in the middle east "men are for pleasure" while women are for work and babies (not necessarily for everyone, but it is a very common concept)? yep a lot of those extremely religious muslims, even the terrorist types, even the level headed average citizens are into sex with dudes, obviously there is more homosexual sex in prison, some cultures the women go out and fight while the men sit around and gossip and put on makeup, etc etc etc. all these cultural observances point to homosexuality as being largely a cultural thing, yet sicence has found no biological basis for it and psychology has found no psychological explanation
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RileyEverleigh
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I have been considering this recently, though I had been thinking more of transgendered persons.Homosexuals could be a very similar thing. With so many things being considered mental illnesses nowadays, why is it we accept a person who believes they were born the wrong gender but not someone believes he is Jesus or something?
It is an interesting idea, definitely worth looking into if you don't get your head ripped off by our PC society first.
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Cognitive_Shift
CS actual
Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
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Re: Is homosexuality a mental illness? [Re: RileyEverleigh] 1
#14167806 - 03/23/11 12:12 AM (13 years, 28 days ago) |
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I think it is apart of our sexuality. Some people are sexually attracted to the opposite sex, some to the same and some both. Just like some people identify as the opposite sex or with the set of genitals they were born with.
No i don't think homosexuality is a mental illness i think it is tightly wound into a persons sexuality. A persons sexuality can be complex or pretty simple IMO
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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Is homosexuality a mental illness? [Re: durantz] 3
#14167861 - 03/23/11 12:26 AM (13 years, 28 days ago) |
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Mental illness is defined by the culture and society. It used to be a mental illness, but its not anymore. In other cultures it still is.
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BeverageFace
Beer Baron
Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 216
Loc: ontario, canada 
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I beleive the biggest factors resulting in homosexuality is childhood abuse, more specifically sexual abuse.
Ever gay/lesbian person who i have talked to, has had some form of sexual abuse.
Also true for real bi-sexual women. As in women who would have an emotional and sexual relationship with another woman without it including a man, and without it being something in seeking attention.
From my experience, bi-sexual girls were often sexually abused at a younger age. And this has instilled a distrust and fear of men in them. They still physically are attracted to men. but cannot easily develop the emotional relationship with men.
So in need of emotional closeness, they often turn to a close friend, often in the same situation, and that emotional attraction is what leads to the sexual part.
you arent the first person to propose this, ive thought it for a while. I tend not to talk to most people about it though, because currently people are hypersensitive to the issue, and you will catch quick backlash from most from mentioning this theory.
http://ultimo167.wordpress.com/articles-on-men/does-child-sexual-abuse-cause-homosexuality/
this study found gay men reported being sexually abused 3 times more than straight men. other factors do affect this though because it is self reported abuse.
Now i am not claiming it can be reversed, but i do think it sometimes naturally reverses itself.
I've seen this more often though with lesbians. When their distrust of men is dealt with, they can then form emotional relations with men, and then lead to sexual relationships. And since they can then have a emotional relationship with a man, they no longer see that out in women, and desire diminishes. i doubt completely though.
The whole argument that it is genetic is completely absurd to me. If there was a gene that caused homosexuality, it would be the first to be weeded out. Genes are passed on genetically through reproduction. So how would these genes be passed on if the carriers are not reproducing?
Also, if this were true it was genetic, then children of gay men and women would be more likely to be gay. So far this has not been shown, and many straight turned gay men, who had families before coming out, are straight.
Are you doing this for a paper, or just discussion on here?
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Ferdinando
Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,748
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Re: Is homosexuality a mental illness? [Re: DieCommie]
#14167931 - 03/23/11 12:39 AM (13 years, 28 days ago) |
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I'm a little gay and I don't consider myself mentally ill
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Joolz
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Re: Is homosexuality a mental illness? [Re: Ferdinando]
#14167956 - 03/23/11 12:46 AM (13 years, 28 days ago) |
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Its not a mental illness, its just how their brain chemistry works.
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Prohibition didn't work for God; Eve ate the fruit.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Is homosexuality a mental illness? [Re: durantz]
#14168066 - 03/23/11 01:26 AM (13 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
durantz said:
I am proposing that homosexuality is a mental illness (this is not a new theory but it seems to have been dropped due to political correctness)
The reason for my proposal is that if homosexuality was genetic then it would have been selectively eliminated from the gene pool. And with estimates of 10% of the population being homosexual it is very unlikely that there is a genetic cause for this.
I believe that the upbringing of a child causes mental problems that, unless they are correctly resolved, result in the person growing up to be a homosexual. Once the homosexual begins receiving sexual gratification from the same sex they are 'rewarded' which further reinforces the homosexual behaviour.
When this process is repeated enough times the individual has become conditioned to respond sexually to the same sex in much the way that Pavlov conditioned his dogs.
Please discuss.
You would have to account for homosexuality within the rest of nature and you haven't.
I can only hope you are playing devils advocate here. But sexual insecurity runs very deep in humanity making the species for the most part mentally ill imo.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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durantz
Stranger
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Re: Is homosexuality a mental illness? [Re: Icelander]
#14168118 - 03/23/11 01:43 AM (13 years, 28 days ago) |
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Well I was expecting some responses but wow this is a lot to respond to so ecuse me if I miss your questions... can't answer them all.
I will respond to Icelander though cos he raises a point I was thinking about since I posted this.
Quote:
You would have to account for homosexuality within the rest of nature and you haven't.
I don't understand why it would be any different in animals... are you denying that animals have a consciousness?
I have read many of your posts and it seems that you advocate that humans are just like any other animal. So why would we be somehow different when it comes to homosexuality?
Not all animals engage in homosexuality but some do. Though I don't see how this is any evidence to support a genetic cause for it.
Is it so absurd to say that these homosexual animals are not mentally defective?
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BeverageFace
Beer Baron
Registered: 03/13/11
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Re: Is homosexuality a mental illness? [Re: Icelander]
#14168126 - 03/23/11 01:45 AM (13 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
durantz said:
I am proposing that homosexuality is a mental illness (this is not a new theory but it seems to have been dropped due to political correctness)
The reason for my proposal is that if homosexuality was genetic then it would have been selectively eliminated from the gene pool. And with estimates of 10% of the population being homosexual it is very unlikely that there is a genetic cause for this.
I believe that the upbringing of a child causes mental problems that, unless they are correctly resolved, result in the person growing up to be a homosexual. Once the homosexual begins receiving sexual gratification from the same sex they are 'rewarded' which further reinforces the homosexual behaviour.
When this process is repeated enough times the individual has become conditioned to respond sexually to the same sex in much the way that Pavlov conditioned his dogs.
Please discuss.
You would have to account for homosexuality within the rest of nature and you haven't.
I can only hope you are playing devils advocate here. But sexual insecurity runs very deep in humanity making the species for the most part mentally ill imo.
From what I have searched. there is no TRUE homosexuality in nature. as in the creature having no desire to mate. most of the time it is sexual behavior with both males and females, or homosexual behavior in captivity, or when they can not find a mate.
So they are actually bisexual.
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durantz
Stranger
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Re: Is homosexuality a mental illness? [Re: BeverageFace]
#14168136 - 03/23/11 01:49 AM (13 years, 28 days ago) |
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Yeah and these so called 'homosexual' animals don't go around differentiating themselves from the rest of the species like human homosexuals do...
Icelander what has this got to do with sexual reproduction?
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area 
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Re: Is homosexuality a mental illness? [Re: DieCommie]
#14168405 - 03/23/11 04:36 AM (13 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
BeverageFace said:
From what I have searched. there is no TRUE homosexuality in nature. as in the creature having no desire to mate.
Sexuality is not only defined as the desire to mate.
Quote:
durantz said:
So they are actually bisexual.
But they exhibit homosexual behavior, regardless of whether or not they also exhibit heterosexual behavior.
Quote:
durantz said:
Quote:
You would have to account for homosexuality within the rest of nature and you haven't.
I don't understand why it would be any different in animals...
He didn't say that at all, he's saying that homosexuality is natural for some creatures.
Quote:
durantz said:
So why would we be somehow different when it comes to homosexuality?
He's not speaking of a difference, he's speaking of a similarity between humans and other animals--some animals exhibit homosexual behavior, just like some humans do.
Quote:
DieCommie said:
Mental illness is defined by the culture and society. It used to be a mental illness, but its not anymore. In other cultures it still is.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan   fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Ferdinando
Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,748
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Re: Is homosexuality a mental illness? [Re: Poid]
#14168424 - 03/23/11 04:54 AM (13 years, 28 days ago) |
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thanks for clearing that up 
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with our love with our love we could save the world
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
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Re: Is homosexuality a mental illness? [Re: durantz] 1
#14168435 - 03/23/11 05:03 AM (13 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
durantz said:
And with estimates of 10% of the population being homosexual it is very unlikely that there is a genetic cause for this.
More retarded nonsense coming from you--there are many conditions that are genetically caused which only approximately 10% of the population is afflicted with. To say that just because only 10% of the population has a certain condition is indicative of that condition not being genetically caused is fucking retarded.
I can't believe that you consider yourself to be "educated" when you say shit like this, and make retarded-ass threads like these; I'm not sure if I should laugh, or cry. 
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Is homosexuality a mental illness? [Re: durantz]
#14168437 - 03/23/11 05:05 AM (13 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
durantz said:
The reason for my proposal is that if homosexuality was genetic then it would have been selectively eliminated from the gene pool. And with estimates of 10% of the population being homosexual it is very unlikely that there is a genetic cause for this.
There's a genetic cause for having hands, and guess what: a lot more than 10% of the people have them. Your argument regarding genetic cause isn't compatible with reality: a) you fail to say how homosexuality would be eliminated from the gene pool if it were genetically caused, b) this kinda of argument seems to defy the observance of the complexisty of genetic expression other than simple one gene for one dominant trait.
Quote:
sk8fast said:
Homosexuality is not a mental illness. Other animals practice homosexuality.
What does your argument have to do with your conclusion? Seems a nonsequitar. Animals kill people and eat them too: does that mean my neighbor Hannibal Lector isn't mentally ill?
Quote:
durantz said:
Is it so absurd to say that these homosexual animals are not mentally defective?
What does it matter? Whether its absurd or not has nothing to do with whether you are correct or not.
What are you defining mental illness to be? Discussions of such in this forum often suffer from top-secret special definitions that people use: i.e. some of the responders apparently define mental illness such that it excludes behaviors other animals exhibit 
edit:
Quote:
DieCommie said:
Mental illness is defined by the culture and society. It used to be a mental illness, but its not anymore. In other cultures it still is.
I disagree with this. While fundamentally this is correct in practice, obviously, the definition of mental illness is definite enough that it is able to be defined irrespective of a particular culture's norms.
Mental illness is definately culturally relative, but that doesn't mean they need to be culturally defined, or are. Culture would seem only able to provide a cause of mental illness-mimicking behavior that is not caused by the person's abnormal nature but by perfectly normal adhearance to social or cultural customs, norms (religious customs et cet). Its hard to see how culture could make some behavior mentally ill when it is not so in the abstract. Even in the religious false-positive example, it is not the culture that 'excuses' the behavior, but meerly the cause of behavior that if it was solely of personal manifestation it might represent divergant pathological behavior.
Are you saying homosexuality, for example, is a valid mental illness in a particular culture? Its hard for me to see how that could be so, provided we're speaking of abnormal pathological behavior, which I'd imagine to be a good definition of mental illness
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Ferdinando
Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,748
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Re: Is homosexuality a mental illness? [Re: johnm214]
#14168458 - 03/23/11 05:17 AM (13 years, 28 days ago) |
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word is a word
just wanted to fit some illumination in here
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