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Offlinekotter
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Hericium and trees
    #13857245 - 01/26/11 10:45 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I thought I'd post images of some fungi and trees here in Mendocino County. More trees than fungi since I'd picked most of the Hericiums and ate them long before thinking I should be taking photos.
Still, if a person can learn to spot the trees and goes out in the right weather Hericiums are pretty easy to find.
I'll do a separate post of some living erinaceus trees.


I am told these are all corolloides although the toothier ones tend to keep going and the denser ones tend to form roundish densely branched masses that I don't have good pictures of except on a dinner plate.
In the next few days I'll pull more closeup images out from previous years and post them as well.
This is a start anyway.

This first downed tree is covered with moss and had already provided two amazing harvests this year totalling easily 5 pounds prior to these images being taken.



This tree (standing on left) started as an erinaceus tree, lost its top (caught in another tree) in what seems a very common pattern. It now has corolloides fruiting under it, under its bark and inside the trunk of the downed section (and likely inside the standing part too high for me to access).
The downed section was originally much larger but was partially destroyed by a bear several winters ago. This has been fruiting nicely four winters now with this one being the best and these images taken well after several good harvests had been eaten. Its provided a LOT of food in that time.
I always try to leave anything I think might get bigger in hopes it will.





This tree toppled at its base similar to the one covered with moss earlier.
It has yielded an incredible five nice harvests since late November ranging from a half pound to a couple of pounds of fruiting bodies. Some were along the lower sides, much was under the section in the air and a number of very nice ones were retrieved from inside of the hollow section.
This photo shows remnants remaining after the last harvest.


Edited by kotter (01/26/11 10:48 PM)

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OfflineHook420
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Re: Hericium and trees [Re: kotter]
    #13857325 - 01/26/11 11:04 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Great F'n pictures man!  The 3rd one in the fist set of pics is a wall hanger!! I'm sure they tasted great too..:thumbup:

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Offlinetropein
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Re: Hericium and trees [Re: Hook420]
    #13857445 - 01/26/11 11:23 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Beautiful! I've never had one, how do they taste?


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Offlinekotter
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Re: Hericium and trees [Re: tropein]
    #13857483 - 01/26/11 11:30 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Really nice and sweet. No sour or bitterness at all. The texture is seafoodlike but the taste isn't.
They are really aggressive eaters themselves which is why I'm hopeful about learning to grow them.

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Offlinetropein
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Re: Hericium and trees [Re: kotter]
    #13857613 - 01/27/11 12:03 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Awesome, well cheers to that!


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OfflineOreganic
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Re: Hericium and trees [Re: tropein]
    #13857832 - 01/27/11 01:17 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Very nice post kotter, very nice habitat shots! I love it! It will help me greatly on my hunt for the Hericium... It seems much more common down there in Northern/Central California than up here in Willamette Valley, Oregon. But I'm certain I'll find some soon.. :evil2:

Anyway, so from what I gather from your pics they love Alder forests and downed alder logs?


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Offlinekotter
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Re: Hericium and trees [Re: Oreganic]
    #13858799 - 01/27/11 09:34 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I'm convinced Hericiums are way more common than most people realize. Both here and in the SF Bay area they are actually a very common decomposer. Or at least it sure does look that way to me.

I think the problem is two-fold:
1) Weather for best fruiting is those beautiful clear or foggy periods (ideally 40s at night and into the 60s during the day) in between periods of heavy rain when most people are either not out hunting for mushrooms or they are focused on finding things like chanterelles, candycaps, hedgehogs or trumpets. (Fruiting bodies of Hericiums really don't last worth beans if getting soaked or beaten by heavy rain.) If these periods are lengthy and have lots of fog and mist the fruiting bodies can get huge but I've also seen large erinaceous appear seemingly within a couple of days. I'll post some images of those trees hopefully later today.
2) Fungi will be on or inside or under trees (or high up) while most people will be scouring the duff rather than looking higher

Walking in the forest *at any time of year* looking for trees with basal invaginations and/or clefts running up the trunks which have lost their tops or else have fallen over at the base will give a good list of candidates to check when the weather is right. Downed branches and trunk sections can be particularly productive, especially if the fallen parts have landed so air can circulate under them. If I am physically able I will often raise sections and support them on other logs to permit better air circulation and lift potential fruiting areas out of the dirt.
Or at least that is what works for me. I look for the trees anytime I go out since the trees will bear for at least several years or more depending on how much they have to eat. Sometimes they have taken 3-5 years of checking before fruiting but so far they always seem to fruit within 5 years of decapitation or toppling unless landing solidly in a muddy zone for their whole length in which case fruiting often has NOT occurred. This is only my 9th winter foraging Hericiums, the first several of which were essentially hit-or-miss lucky bumbling, so anything I'm saying should be viewed as tentative working hypotheses.
Still, this year I'm currently following 23 trees (occurring over an area of about 80 acres straddling us and our neighbors) that either have been fruiting already this year or soon will be after more wet weather returns and passes (or I assume that due to them fruiting late last winter). There are a lot more that which I am watching hopefully and around a dozen which have exhausted themselves since I started.
Its hard to go out and not spot more once a person knows what to look for. I'm not saying I know much of anything, mind you, I'm just learning to find these and hoping to learn more about them.

The mycelium has a distinctive sweet smell so its often easy to recognize even when lacking fruit.
Host trees can vary geographically but here this one almost always occurs on tan-oak (Lithocarpus) or less often on blue-oak. We've found it or something like it on a live doug-fir here but only once and only one small fruiting body. I'm not sure the smaller ones are the same as they are really densely ramnifying and have a slightly bitter taste. Some of these never get bigger than 2 inches.
Tan-oak also serves as the hosts for erinaceus here.

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Offlinekotter
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Re: Hericium and trees [Re: kotter]
    #13858810 - 01/27/11 09:38 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I've heard they do OK on alder and on maple and on other hardwoods but in our area its tan-oak in older sections of growth and USUALLY its in a zone that gets bathed with rising moist cool air from a spring or a springfed creek.
We also live in the 'cloud forest' level of this temperate coastal rainforest which might be why they love it here so much? Or at least that appears to be the zone they are most prevalent within.

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Invisibletruffleupagus
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Re: Hericium and trees [Re: kotter]
    #13859092 - 01/27/11 10:43 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Nice pics! :thumbup:

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OfflineOreganic
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Re: Hericium and trees [Re: kotter]
    #13859568 - 01/27/11 12:08 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

kotter said:
I'm not saying I know much of anything, mind you, I'm just learning to find these and hoping to learn more about them.




Umm, I'll disagree on that one - you seem to know the Hericium better than most! These have been some extremely informative posts kotter! I really do appreciate the info. :awesomenod::congrats:


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Offlinekotter
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Re: Hericium and trees [Re: Oreganic]
    #13860662 - 01/27/11 03:26 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I appreciate the kind thought but would suggest I've probably just spent more time in the woods obsessed with these fungi than many people. What I don't know far outweighs what I've learned. WIth luck and the resources of this forum I hope to expand these into cultivation and to continue to grow in understanding.
A BIG question I have is whether what I'm finding is really corolloides or if some of them might be a divergent growth form of erinaceus such as some people like Roger Rabbit have show up in cultivation. Stamets comments on high CO2 causing more branching as has another person here. Inside of a hollow trunk filled with wet rot it would seem like CO2 build up might be easily experienced by these things?
Its just a thought that I lack an answer for.

The following images are erinaceus trees, the first two of which are still alive and fruiting and I believe the third one has probably reached its production limit for erinaceus?
I often think of photos as afterthoughts compared to finding fungi hence my lack of fruit images that are actually still physically attached to two of these.

Tree 1
This tree has produced a single large fruit (during periods of beautiful weather when day time temperatures get into the 70s) during late November or December since it was noticed last year. Its a sketchy climb as its usually about 12 feet up on the side overhanging a slope immediately below the tree.
The tree appears to have a lot of life left in it.


Tree 2
I ate the first part of this before I thought about taking images. Its remnant can be seen below the others. That one I used a long stick to knock down. The others I brought my 21 foot Silky to take down the following day. The plates are what was brought down. Not a nice way to harvest but my ideas on harvesting tools are still waiting for the another round for testing.
Nonfruiting images are more recent than the fruiting ones.
This tree is farther along in its consumption by Hericium than tree number 1.
 

Tree 3
This is the first time I've found erinaceus on the downed part of a tree rather than the standing part. Obviously I did not get there in time for the one shown but did harvest two larger ones from inside the heart of the shattered zone. They were fairly orange and pretty bitter. It may be finished as far as nice big fat erinaceus goes but time will tell.
This should start fruiting with the corolloides within the next few years if its like the others around here have been.

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Offlinekotter
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Re: Hericium and trees [Re: kotter]
    #13860746 - 01/27/11 03:43 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

More corolloides and trees. I did not think to start taking photos of the actual tree until after harvesting of its fruiting bodies was completed. Thankfully I shot one of them still on the tree.




And another. This is a moderately productive tree but only on its downed parts.
I elevated the log to aid in fruiting and help keep the mushrooms cleaner.



This tree was already harvested before I thought to go back and take photos. It was fruiting on the outside, under the outer bark and inside of the trunk. Fortunately I had left one fruiting body to grow larger. Tiny bits of Hericiums are also starting inside of the trunk if a person looks really closely but they are a bit hard to see.

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Offlinekotter
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Re: Hericium and trees [Re: kotter]
    #13860798 - 01/27/11 03:54 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

More Hericium trees but lacking fruiting bodies.
I hope viewers are seeing a pattern?

This first one gave abundant fruit this year but I was too late late year.


This tree fruited inside of the clefts early this year (last winter) requiring some tricky excision with the tip of a pole saw as well producing a bunch of smallish Hericiums near the base on the outside of the trunk.
When its top fell it knocked down two other Hericium trees prematurely and deprived a pileated woodpecker of a nice home.



This next tree was fruiting last spring. Im unclear if it still has enough umph for this year or not but should know before March.

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Offlinefrumpalump
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Re: Hericium and trees [Re: kotter]
    #13862831 - 01/27/11 09:18 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Hi Kotter,  I've been finding a lot of Bear's head, Hericium abietis I believe, and I was wondering if you could recommend some of your favorite ways to cook it.  Any suggestions? Thanks!

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OfflineOreganic
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Re: Hericium and trees [Re: kotter]
    #13863949 - 01/28/11 12:49 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

kotter said:
More Hericium trees but lacking fruiting bodies.
I hope viewers are seeing a pattern?





:awesomenod: Yes, I am kotter. Thanks for the incredibly thorough habitat lesson - I certainly know where I will be looking now. It's cool to see that they grow off of a wide variety of trees. It appears one up there is even growing off of a cherry! Cool stuff.


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Offlineapplesmasher420
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Re: Hericium and trees [Re: frumpalump]
    #13864157 - 01/28/11 01:31 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

frumpalump said:
Hi Kotter,  I've been finding a lot of Bear's head, Hericium abietis I believe, and I was wondering if you could recommend some of your favorite ways to cook it.  Any suggestions? Thanks!




if your trying to stay simple nothing beats the fry it in buttah technique i love and use for all mushrooms im trying to taste ^_^

but if your going for something fancy theirs plenty of other options


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Offlinekotter
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Re: Hericium and trees [Re: applesmasher420]
    #13865038 - 01/28/11 09:20 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Fry it in butter is a great approach to this and other mushrooms. This one gets amazing when the tips start going golden.
They are also incredibly nice cooked slowly over low heat in a covered dry pan with butter added towards the end. If moisture is too high to start leave the lid off until the liquid starts resorbing. This preserves the flavor and shows off the texture a lot better but both are great as is folding either into an omelette.
They freeze sort of OK fresh but they freeze great after being cooked. Thanks to an amazing year and the regular putting away of anything beyond what I could eat, I'll be eating erinaceus and corolloides well into the spring.
A useful suggestion that might be stating the obvious is that it is much easier to take the time to pick and wrap these as cleanly as possible during harvesting than it is to be cleaning dirt out of them after getting home. Not that one can actually avoid the latter - I'm just suggesting its possible to reduce it.
If possible I also like to clean them and leave them on a plate refrigerated overnight as this permits some loss of moisture and encourages the wealth of small beetles that live on and in the branches to come out where I can pick them off.

I'd like to know more about other habitat zones than just what is here.
This is a secondary regrowth redwood forest that is now characterized as being a mix of doug-fir, tan-oak, redwood and madrone with lesser amounts of hemlock - and manzanita in the warmer spots. Huckleberries are also quite abundant (as is everything that grows with them)
The comments on finding them in hills and ravines is spot-on. Its been rare for me to find them anyplace but slopes. Of course its also rare to find anything other than a sloping surface around here.
Same with hollow logs being good spots to look for hiding specimens although here almost any tan-oak log that was cut would soon be entirely removed for someone's firewood so I don't encounter many cut tan-oaks that are around for long enough. Its sometimes an unnerving experience to push one's hand through spiderwebs into a deep cavity of a rotting tree or downed section to search where eyes can't see but its often a very productive place to find protected fruiting bodies - especially when there has been more rain than ideal. I've only been bit by spiders or whatnot a couple of times doing this and never badly.

Also I would love to know how the different 'species' are defined (I am familiar with the keys) and how they relate and what is what on that topic. The more I read on this the more confused I get.
Is corolloides in SC the same as corolloides in N Cal? 
If ramosum became corolloides and corolloides became americanum why was the name corolloides not abandoned for virtue of being confusion generating due to its prior application for something different (assuming the nomenclature code is respected)?
If ramosum is corolloides now and corolloides is americanum and americanum is not a West Coast species what exactly do we have here outside of what is clearly erinaceus? Is it all one thing - corolloides - or is there more than one?  (I'll try to get photos of what is around here up late today but it could be tomorrow before there is time)
Is part of what I'm thinking is corolloides just a growth form of erinaceus?
I might be learning to find these more effectively every year but understanding anything else about them seems to be moving in a reverse direction for me.

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InvisibleThe Thinker

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Re: Hericium and trees [Re: kotter]
    #13865206 - 01/28/11 10:13 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

As far as I know this is how Hericium spp in the US are distributed

East of plains
Hericium americanum - hardwoods, but documented on conifers
Hericium erinaceus - hardwoods
Hericium coralloides - hardwoods

West of plains
Hericium abeitis - conifers
Hericium erinaceus - hardwoods
Hericium coralloides - hardwoods

Good info, kotter. I find Hericium in many habitats around here. Along rivers and creeks, in flood plains, forests, high elevation, even stumps in friends' yards. If there's dead hardwood (mostly on oak around here) I'm never surprised to see them.
The giants I find are usually on dead parts of living trees or a dead trunk connected to a living tree.

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Offlinekotter
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Re: Hericium and trees [Re: The Thinker]
    #13867723 - 01/28/11 06:44 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

That was what I ran into leaving me wondering if everything branching here was just variable expressions of corolloides (formerly ramosum) or if maybe some of these were erinaceus showing branching. There appears to be a consistent link observable locally between erinaceus toppling the tree tops and branching fruits forming on the downed parts after those beautiful fat chunks stop forming but lots of mushroom species coexist and this may be no different?

Some assorted images will follow below - mostly from years past - but I'm posting another tree image or so next.

The first image is from a hollow log that fell onto a road. Almost all of this one's fungi were inside the hollow parts but mostly out of visible sight requiring the Braille method of mushroom harvesting from both ends.
It would probably still be fruiting if it had not been destroyed by a cleanup crew. I'm always amazed at how productive these fallen bits can be.



Another, for us, typical occurrence.
Notice how intensely this has eaten its way through part of the wood. Only a year ago that disintegrated section was seemingly intact, covered with moss and fruiting very heavily above and below on the missing part.


Another look at what Hericium leaves behind when its done eating.

Spotting this rot pattern in downed wood has also helped me to find some trees that later bore fruiting bodies. This and the basal invagination pattern had me perplexed at first when starting to think they were related as their abundance suggested Hericiums were literally all around me in contrast to what my reading led me to expect. The reality turned out to be they are all around me here.

These two images really should have been uploaded with the very first set above but somehow got missed. The first one may give a feel for what locally is a typical terrain?



The following are fairly random shots of Hericium harvested here. Sadly I have not taken more pictures in the wild (but plan to alter that in the future) and my apologies that these mostly were taken just before they became part of dinner or had at least travelled home in a paper bag rather than being pristine. (I now spend more time in the field trying to keep them clean.)
I'm hoping they show some of the variability despite their being less than ideal shots overall.



The last two are of a cultivated erinaceus purchased from a Bay area grocer - included for simple comparison.

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InvisibleParkseerf
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Re: Hericium and trees [Re: kotter]
    #13868158 - 01/28/11 08:28 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

:congrats: Good stuff man!:thumbup:

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