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 Liberty King
Seeker of Liberties
 
Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 461
Loc: NS, Canada's Darkside 
Last seen: 2 days, 6 hours
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 Re: Liberty Caps (Semilanceata) What's Fact and what's Debatable? [Re: knarkkorven]
#13385223 - 10/25/10 12:50 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah I definately agree that the first frost does "trigger" a good initial "wave" of fruiting for Libs! As you say though they can be found before in more mild weather though... Last year I was getting eaten by mosquitos while I was picking my 1st libs of the season.
What really interests me is the "1st year is the best" concept! Now that I'm thinking back I do beleive you are correct, or at least it too has been my experience! . Most of the areas I picked as a kid don't produce near what they used to now. I mentioned certain picking techniques in my etiquette thread ( http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/13269092 ) but it seems as though most people are of the beleif that it really doesn't matter... that in fact it's beneficial because you are spreading the spores!.... I think this may be true for mature mushrooms but fields that people "pillage" every mushroom seem to suffer more the following years, maybe that's not the case but it does seem that way to me at least. In fields where I am not in competition with rival pickers I always leave small libs though.
As far as the seasons end I also beleive several "solid" frosts in a row usually spells the end (Hopefully I'll disprove this for myself this weekend though  )
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LIBERTY NATION - P.Semilanceata/Liberty Caps Thread! (What region have you found Libs? Add your area!  )
Mr.Mushrooms: We'll talk sometime soon... I am never in a hurry!
"I'm not in a hurry either but we'll talk sometime soon friend!" R.I.P.
  
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Liberty King
Seeker of Liberties
Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 461
Loc: NS, Canada's Darkside
Last seen: 2 days, 6 hours
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Re: Liberty Caps (Semilanceata) What's Fact and what's Debatable? [Re: Liberty King]
#13399578 - 10/28/10 07:16 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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I myself rarely have the oportunity to pick fields grazed by "farm animals" however it's always been accepted that, even though "Libs" don't grow on dung, it's benificial to them... nutrient-wise or what have you! German Kahuna had a great take on what possibly makes these fields better sustained!
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German Kahuna said:
Ok, here is another "scientific" liberty cap hypothesis.
My take on why fields grazed by animals will be more prolific producers compared to pastures that aren't. I think that the animals that graze these fields eat the mushrooms while grazing and thus also drop the spores with the dung. The dung is a good culture medium, even though the libs wont's fruit directly from them. Since the lumps of dung are heavy they will take the spores all the way to the ground and thus closer to where Psilocybe semilanceata will find its actual substrate - grass roots. A lot of the spores that get dropped from the caps the regular way won't make it through the grass canopy to the ground and thus libs won't fruit as prolifically in pastures that lack grazing animals
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When asked about the gastric acids of the "animals" stomachs having negative effects on the spores.....
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German Kahuna said:
No, they will not be destroyed. Mushrooms and plants get spread around via spores and seeds travelling in the stomachs of birds over thousands of miles. And bird shit is some of the most acidic, aggressive feces around. Bird shit will burn the paint right off of a car. It's happened to me a couple of times.
Remember that there are plenty of coprophile (dung loving) mushrooms growing straight out of the manure? Of course the spores could have been blown onto the dung, but that couldn't happen in 100% of all cases. In some cases the spores must have travelled the gastrointernal system of the animal whose dung it grows in. In most cases you will see the mushrooms fruit right out of the middle of the shit.
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Mr.Mushrooms also added... The cell walls of the spores are composed of chitin, as is the mushroom. The same stuff as lobster shells. It is incredibly strong and durable. Chitinase, an enzyme, is used by deliquescing mushrooms to dissolve it.
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Psylosymonreturns then made the point.... I am sorry but i disagree because i pick a friggin hay field that is just as prolific as ANY cow field ive ever picked. no poo ever in over 15 years ive been going there. i even think its beter cuz the friggin cows trample everything. poo is not as important as you make it seem.
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Kahunas response was as follows.... Well, actually, yes, I believe it is. Just because there haven't been any grazing animals in that field for a long time doesn't mean that they haven't been beneficial in the past. Herbivore dung is an incredibly nutritious base for mushroom culture. It's basically like germinating spores on agar and then rubbing the well colonized medium into the grass roots. Once the mycelium is well established, the grazing animals may not play such an important part as long as the field is not over-harvested.
I will give you an example.
There are two pastures that I have been frequenting for the past 20+ years. Both are only a few hundred meters apart and both have been frequented by a lot of other people as well, as they are well known. One of them is a horse pasture, the other one is just a wild field. Both have been over-picked with lots of ignorant idiots just tearing out mushrooms with huge lumps of substrate still attached to the base. The one that has horses in it still produces well after 20 years, the one that doesn't is depleted by now. You can run around there for two or three hours and you will find not more than a half dozen libs.
I believe that the reason is that the constant "dung-flow" is providing valuable nutrients and also the animals that wander the pasture dropping it will constantly redistribute the spores basically embedded in their own incubator.
So what I am saying is that as long as there is some form of equilibrium, it might not matter all that much, but as soon as that equilibrium gets disturbed the presence of grazing herbivores will make a significant difference, indeed.
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Psylosymon said: I dont know german ive been hitting this field since 1993 and its actually improved... the farmer has never let cattle in this field since ive been going there. he does fertilize with compost tho. i see lotsa egg shells
is dung crucial for libs to be there or anywhere for that matter? hell no definelty not. its the grass.
could present dung contribute in a nutritional way? its gotta.
is it better? not in my opinion as i said before. animals are constantly walking around stomping shit up. i have a pleasant short grass with nothing stepped on or muddied up and no shit to kneel in. and still killer numbers.
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I myself beleive that perhaps it isn't the fact that "dung" necessarily mean MORE "Prolific" fields, but perhaps just better "sustains" a fields viability! as long as some form of continued nutrient delivery is present the field tends to be alright... point in case, a graveyard I have picked for over 15 years now!
Another good point made by psylosymon was the fact that finding a field, with "Proper" grass simply has higer "odds" of having animals in it!
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LIBERTY NATION - P.Semilanceata/Liberty Caps Thread! (What region have you found Libs? Add your area! )
Mr.Mushrooms: We'll talk sometime soon... I am never in a hurry!
"I'm not in a hurry either but we'll talk sometime soon friend!" R.I.P.
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Liberty King
Seeker of Liberties
Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 461
Loc: NS, Canada's Darkside
Last seen: 2 days, 6 hours
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Re: Liberty Caps (Semilanceata) What's Fact and what's Debatable? [Re: Liberty King]
#13404888 - 10/29/10 05:07 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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- MYTHS
- Libs don't start growing until after the 1st Frost!
- You ONLY find Libs in "animal" pastures!
- FACTS:
- Libs are not "easily" grown indoors!
- Libs DO NOT grow ON dung, However, animal "droppings" are beneficial (but not neccesary) for spreading the spores
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LIBERTY NATION - P.Semilanceata/Liberty Caps Thread! (What region have you found Libs? Add your area! )
Mr.Mushrooms: We'll talk sometime soon... I am never in a hurry!
"I'm not in a hurry either but we'll talk sometime soon friend!" R.I.P.
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Fern
Registered: 06/17/10
Posts: 213
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 22 hours, 34 minutes
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Re: Liberty Caps (Semilanceata) What's Fact and what's Debatable? [Re: Liberty King]
#13405204 - 10/29/10 07:50 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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liberty could you manage to shine some light on these two:
1) do flicking caps actually help. if so, what stage of growth.
2) when picking, should we pinch the stems at bottom instead of plucking. possible damage to mycelium base?
thanks
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Joie
Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 3,179
Last seen: 8 hours, 8 minutes
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Re: Liberty Caps (Semilanceata) What's Fact and what's Debatable? [Re: Fern]
#13405240 - 10/29/10 08:08 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Flicking caps makes minimal to zero difference. Mature caps will have already dropped a gazillion spores.
Uprooting them might inhibit future growth so it is better to pick by severing the stems.
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love shroomery ~ what an education ~ praises and thanks ~ i don't contribute like before and i am working on that
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Liberty King
Seeker of Liberties
Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 461
Loc: NS, Canada's Darkside
Last seen: 2 days, 6 hours
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Re: Liberty Caps (Semilanceata) What's Fact and what's Debatable? [Re: Fern]
#13405656 - 10/29/10 10:07 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Fern the responses given by Joie are the accepted opinions on both questions. (thanks Joie ) Even though almost everyone I've spoken to says flicking doesn't make an ounce of difference, I still do it  It can't hurt as far as i can figure so I do... also once I've pinched the stem off I like to drag the cap, through the grass, by the stem.... again it's probably "1000 to 1" odds of it making any significant difference, but why not?... thanks for contributing, it's appreciated and good luck hunting!
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LIBERTY NATION - P.Semilanceata/Liberty Caps Thread! (What region have you found Libs? Add your area! )
Mr.Mushrooms: We'll talk sometime soon... I am never in a hurry!
"I'm not in a hurry either but we'll talk sometime soon friend!" R.I.P.
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 lasdR
nostalgic sci-fi
Registered: 08/09/10
Posts: 641
Loc: In your mind
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Re: Liberty Caps (Semilanceata) What's Fact and what's Debatable? [Re: Liberty King]
#13416025 - 10/31/10 08:07 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Liberty King said:
- MYTHS
- Libs don't start growing until after the 1st Frost!
- You ONLY find Libs in "animal" pastures!
- FACTS:
- Libs are not "easily" grown indoors!
- Libs DO NOT grow ON dung, However, animal "droppings" are beneficial (but not neccesary) for spreading the spores
Your myths are busted. I guess you knew that? you find alot of fully developed ones loong before frost sets in. atleast where I am at.
And the only reason people about the pastures is simple. Im shocked you people didnt mention this yet.. animal pastures over years and years give the soil alot of fertilizing. alot of "food" for all things organic. piss and shit is brilliant food for plants and such. the theory about the kattle eating shrooms is true. they do sometimes.
Still, as we all know, libs can grow fucking anywhere, the main key feature needed I think is lush, healthy strong grass and vegetation. meaning the spot has a good amount of water in the soil etc. the reason footballpitches and such sometimes gives good results would be frequent cuttings of the grass (nutrition and sporespread if fruiting) at the same time things like sweat and spit from the people using the field.
as for patches going inactive for years. Ive heard this from people and seen it alot of times. no idea on that.
a thing i would love to test somday would be to make sporeculures in syringes and try to create new fields on newly laid grass and ideal spots.
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Liberty King
Seeker of Liberties
Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 461
Loc: NS, Canada's Darkside
Last seen: 2 days, 6 hours
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Re: Liberty Caps (Semilanceata) What's Fact and what's Debatable? [Re: lasdR]
#13417179 - 11/01/10 06:59 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah private outdoor "gardens" would be great.... I think the fertilizer thing was mentioned in the discussion between German Kahuna an Psylosymon though! As for the patches going inactive I like hearing what others have to say on it.... but there are just so many possible factors for various places that it really is all just guesses.... none the less ideas are good!
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LIBERTY NATION - P.Semilanceata/Liberty Caps Thread! (What region have you found Libs? Add your area! )
Mr.Mushrooms: We'll talk sometime soon... I am never in a hurry!
"I'm not in a hurry either but we'll talk sometime soon friend!" R.I.P.
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StInvetroThomas
Damn straight I'm a hunter.
Registered: 04/29/02
Posts: 1,282
Loc: Estonia 
Last seen: 8 days, 15 hours
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Re: Liberty Caps (Semilanceata) What's Fact and what's Debatable? [Re: Liberty King]
#13418357 - 11/01/10 01:16 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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I agree - patches going dead are a big mystery. Although I can't really comment on whether it not any of my patches are dead or not - I was disturbed to find one of my most promising new patches seems to have fizzled for no reason whatsoever. I was there four days ago and found 8 reasonable sized mushrooms and a good number of pins - I thought that 4 days should have been a good lapse of time to go back, today however I found ziltch there - nada. I dunno if another picker scooped my patch but I think it's unlikely. Not too many people know about active mushrooms in this country and these are totally not your usual spots in the countryside where most people might look. Who knows though, I could be wrong. I also checked my other patches and a new one and did not find a whole hell of a lot ' my main patch had not a single mushroom, my secondary patch had three, and another new one had 2 and a bunch of long past due ones.
The weather has to my knowledge been pretty much perfect despite a frost about 6 days ago, daytime highs around 7-10 and night-time temps 4-6 or so with intermittent rain. Previous to that we had 5 days of rain and previous to that almost a month completely dry. Perhaps the mycelium did not get a chance to rebound from the dry spell. Just a theory. Perhaps the waning moon cycle is affecting them? Shit load of mycena though so that theory is probably flat.
The more I learn about these mushrooms the more questions I find myself still asking. So far my total for the season is about 50 mushrooms now, I suppose as I missed the first big flush and this is my first year out of about a decade of not finding them, I can't complain too bad.
I certainly do think now though that animal fertilised fields are probably more fertile than my totally wild borderline swamp fields are. I need to hit me some grazed pastures.
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"...I found dozens of single specimens. That's what I call hunting. There are only a few "good" hunters here, even now. You're certainly in that group. I would imagine if we hunted together we'd find our styles are similar."
- Mr. Mushrooms
RIP Matt, your friendship and your contributions to the world of fungi will be missed. Unfortunately we never got to hunt together.
St Thomas
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13shrooms
Lightning Shaman
Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 18,123
Loc: In the Ether
Last seen: 21 hours, 55 minutes
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Re: Liberty Caps (Semilanceata) What's Fact and what's Debatable? [Re: StInvetroThomas]
#13543848 - 11/26/10 11:19 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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