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 RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 39,374
Loc: USA Mountain Northwest
Last seen: 12 hours, 16 minutes
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 Re: light for Cubes Cool daylight VS Blue 460nm  [Re: HerbBaker]
#13464854 - 11/10/10 07:49 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
HerbBaker said:
Yeah its my grow with blue led
And it's a very nice grow. 
Now, do a few hundred more grows with that and other lights, as well as various substrates to rule out flukes of nature and/or substrate and strain issues. It's extremely important to do many side-by-side experiments. Remember, medical testers often conduct studies on tens of thousands of people before issuing new guidelines.
Nobody is denigrating the results. We're only saying to sit back, take a deep breath, and listen to those who have done this thousands of times.
Furthermore, lamps we can all generally purchase locally are labeled in color temperature, so since that's the current standard, we use it. Hundreds of members here switched to 6500K CFL and 'cool white' LEDs over the last few years and their results are far better than the old adage that 'any old light will do'. If you come up with something better, that's great. We're just saying to subject it to many more tests to confirm the results. Remember, pf experimented with UV lamps and got excellent results until the genetics were ruined and he lost his best strains.
RR
--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
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ProfessorPinHead
Trapped in the Archives....
Registered: 07/09/10
Posts: 4,496
Loc: F=G*m_1*m_2/r^2 
Last seen: 2 days, 8 hours
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Re: light for Cubes Cool daylight VS Blue 460nm [Re: RogerRabbit]
#13464970 - 11/10/10 08:14 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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No any old light will not do. You need 6500K. Seriously.
I still can not for the life of me figure out why anyone still uses regular light bulbs to grow with 
That is old news...........
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"Words hold no power over you until you give in to them".....
myco-tek
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 CheeWiz
Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 276
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Hi HerbBaker; it's a very good grow and I don't mean to look like I'm denigrating your results. You were being sarcastic and the whole screen of a part of a grow; well it was a bit much. But I have no right to imply you were using a stock photo. It's both our bad and no one really gets the better end of an online argument let alone wins. Best Wishes to You; Chee Wizz
Edited by CheeWiz (11/11/10 09:02 AM)
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Mr.Caterpillar
Stranger
Registered: 07/28/07
Posts: 57
Loc: Wonderland
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Re: light for Cubes Cool daylight VS Blue 460nm [Re: HerbBaker]
#13466708 - 11/11/10 02:27 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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So, Herb, you certainly got a good result using blue LED as a light source. It's not better than results using more conventional lighting, but it looks equal. What does it prove? Does this show that Cubensis is responding to a specific wavelength, 460nm, and not to a "color temperature"? Did you execute this grow in such a way that the culture was deprived of all other light sources and only used this blue LED?
My previous experience with LED lights and mushrooms was negative: I had them in use in a humidifier that employed ultrasonic pond foggers. The reservoir was clear plastic and the pond foggers had decorative LED lights on them. I had the fog going during the spawn run, and so the fogger lights were on. The mycelium would not grow. It grew out a little in feeble rhizomorphic strands, but did not take the compost. I did not think that little bit of light was a big deal, but boy was I wrong! On the next run I closed up the foggers in an opaque reservoir and everything colonized as it should. At the time I was still learning to do phase 2 composting and so ammonia in the compost was a contributing factor to the failure, but on the next run I still had poorly made compost and it managed to colonize. Not having a "light show" (it sure looked pretty!) going in my humidifier made a difference!
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Hofmann1943
explorer
Registered: 03/05/09
Posts: 342
Loc: Forest
Last seen: 19 days, 15 hours
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Re: light for Cubes Cool daylight VS Blue 460nm [Re: Mr.Caterpillar]
#13467384 - 11/11/10 08:21 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
HerbBaker said:
Oh ok, I guess I'll pick up my marbles and go home.
Man you are sooo funny. 
sorry for this.
I Think that this arguing is getting us nowhere.
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By Albert Hofmann :
Been cautious man, I though I would start with a smallest, smallest quantity. Namely I started with 0.25mg.....and my intention was to increase dosage to see if something will happened.
That very small dosage, the first dose of my experiments i planed, was very very strong.
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Hofmann1943
explorer
Registered: 03/05/09
Posts: 342
Loc: Forest
Last seen: 19 days, 15 hours
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Re: light for Cubes Cool daylight VS Blue 460nm [Re: Hofmann1943]
#13467420 - 11/11/10 08:45 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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To HerbBaker
You used 5050 blue led?
How long is your strip?
How many W and lumen's is it.
how far from top of your case is your led?
In addition these lights do not have the heat problems, often last 50,000 hours, produce little useless yellow/green spectrum light, and are very compact. In fact this lack of production of yellow/green light in most all high end emitters used by various LED Kelvin lights often makes the LED look less bright to the human eye, when in fact the opposite is true as per useful light energy.
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By Albert Hofmann :
Been cautious man, I though I would start with a smallest, smallest quantity. Namely I started with 0.25mg.....and my intention was to increase dosage to see if something will happened.
That very small dosage, the first dose of my experiments i planed, was very very strong.
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Hofmann1943
explorer
Registered: 03/05/09
Posts: 342
Loc: Forest
Last seen: 19 days, 15 hours
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Re: light for Cubes Cool daylight VS Blue 460nm [Re: Hofmann1943]
#13467446 - 11/11/10 09:03 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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something is fishy about this blue led lights.
The only thing i can get my hand on is 200 lm, per 5m of strip.
That's like 50 lm per bulk man that's little.
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By Albert Hofmann :
Been cautious man, I though I would start with a smallest, smallest quantity. Namely I started with 0.25mg.....and my intention was to increase dosage to see if something will happened.
That very small dosage, the first dose of my experiments i planed, was very very strong.
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Hofmann1943
explorer
Registered: 03/05/09
Posts: 342
Loc: Forest
Last seen: 19 days, 15 hours
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Re: light for Cubes Cool daylight VS Blue 460nm [Re: Hofmann1943]
#13467457 - 11/11/10 09:09 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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but this white led,s are 6000k and 5000 lm per 5 m.
so that is like 1000 lm per bulk.
I read somewhere that 2000 lm are minimum, think RR wrote it.
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By Albert Hofmann :
Been cautious man, I though I would start with a smallest, smallest quantity. Namely I started with 0.25mg.....and my intention was to increase dosage to see if something will happened.
That very small dosage, the first dose of my experiments i planed, was very very strong.
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Hofmann1943
explorer
Registered: 03/05/09
Posts: 342
Loc: Forest
Last seen: 19 days, 15 hours
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Re: light for Cubes Cool daylight VS Blue 460nm [Re: Hofmann1943]
#13468790 - 11/11/10 03:23 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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After some serious thinking, more sens have cool-white spectrum than blue.
Nothing personal but advice from 40(cultivating) year old man is more then i need.
Thanks to all, these advices sure showed me much about light.
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By Albert Hofmann :
Been cautious man, I though I would start with a smallest, smallest quantity. Namely I started with 0.25mg.....and my intention was to increase dosage to see if something will happened.
That very small dosage, the first dose of my experiments i planed, was very very strong.
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HerbBaker
Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 2,457
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Re: light for Cubes Cool daylight VS Blue 460nm [Re: Hofmann1943]
#13468802 - 11/11/10 03:27 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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I apologies to anyone I may have offended, its not my intent. I'm trying to learn and not have my ideas simply dismissed as invalid when I believe otherwise.
The problem with using lumens is that they are measured at around 555nm, in the yellow-green region of light where human eyesight is most sensitive. This doesn't help us for fungi.
The lights I use are (5050) 30 cm long, 12 lights per strip, I believe they are 1.8 watts per strip.
LED can deliver over 80% of its lumens to provide lux at the surface, other spherical lights(HID, fluorescent, etc..) provide maybe 50% at best.
Most studies Ive read show a linear increase in growth up to about 500 lux, more than that and fungi growth slows down.
My grow was not completely light tight however I did try to minimize any outside light.
I have some cool-white LED strips so I will test those in the same manner.
If 6500k fluorescent works best, I'm ok with that.
What I'm figuring out is why and if we can improve upon it.
Its possible to create a light with a custom wavelength profile designed especially for cubensis. By combining blue(470nm), purple(440nm) and UV-A (370nm) LEDS you can hit all the trigger points without wasting any energy on wavelengths that fungi don't respond too (510nm+).
I do not dismiss Badham's work as invalid in any way.
Edited by HerbBaker (11/11/10 03:34 PM)
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ProfessorPinHead
Trapped in the Archives....
Registered: 07/09/10
Posts: 4,496
Loc: F=G*m_1*m_2/r^2
Last seen: 2 days, 8 hours
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Re: light for Cubes Cool daylight VS Blue 460nm [Re: HerbBaker]
#13472212 - 11/12/10 06:12 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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6500k
LED landing strip 
--------------------
"Words hold no power over you until you give in to them".....
myco-tek
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HerbBaker
Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 2,457
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 39,374
Loc: USA Mountain Northwest
Last seen: 12 hours, 16 minutes
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Re: light for Cubes Cool daylight VS Blue 460nm [Re: Mr.Caterpillar]
#13472802 - 11/12/10 11:34 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mr.Caterpillar said:
My previous experience with LED lights and mushrooms was negative: I had them in use in a humidifier that employed ultrasonic pond foggers. The reservoir was clear plastic and the pond foggers had decorative LED lights on them. I had the fog going during the spawn run, and so the fogger lights were on. The mycelium would not grow. It grew out a little in feeble rhizomorphic strands, but did not take the compost. I did not think that little bit of light was a big deal, but boy was I wrong! On the next run I closed up the foggers in an opaque reservoir and everything colonized as it should. At the time I was still learning to do phase 2 composting and so ammonia in the compost was a contributing factor to the failure, but on the next run I still had poorly made compost and it managed to colonize. Not having a "light show" (it sure looked pretty!) going in my humidifier made a difference!
The lack of growth was unrelated to the light. Mycelium colonizes just as well in light as in darkness, and often better. I suspect a contamination of some sort. Why on earth would you have foggers going during spawn run? You're supposed to have the substrate closed up to maintain a high CO2 level. Ambient humidity therefore is irrelevant.
RR
--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
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Hofmann1943
explorer
Registered: 03/05/09
Posts: 342
Loc: Forest
Last seen: 19 days, 15 hours
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Quote:
ProfessorPinHead said:
6500k
LED landing strip
I heard so much bu*lsh*t from time to time, but your's don't even rime.
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By Albert Hofmann :
Been cautious man, I though I would start with a smallest, smallest quantity. Namely I started with 0.25mg.....and my intention was to increase dosage to see if something will happened.
That very small dosage, the first dose of my experiments i planed, was very very strong.
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Mr.Caterpillar
Stranger
Registered: 07/28/07
Posts: 57
Loc: Wonderland
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Re: light for Cubes Cool daylight VS Blue 460nm [Re: RogerRabbit]
#13478430 - 11/13/10 03:10 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
The lack of growth was unrelated to the light. Mycelium colonizes just as well in light as in darkness, and often better. I suspect a contamination of some sort. Why on earth would you have foggers going during spawn run? You're supposed to have the substrate closed up to maintain a high CO2 level. Ambient humidity therefore is irrelevant.
RR
Originally when I started doing the fruiting in a room (about 3 years ago) I would just have all the trays open and they all colonized very nicely top and bottom. The humidity was on to keep these open trays moist. Later, I began to have problems with the culture not colonizing the substrate so successfully, perhaps owing to changes in air circulation, and I started covering it up with plastic for the spawn run.
The incident I described took place about a year and a half ago when I made my first attempts at making compost and putting it through a phase 2 cook. Well, composting is an art unto itself, and my first cooks didn't go well owing to my inexperience and the inadequacies of my equipment, and so the resulting substrate had not "de-ammonified" sufficiently. Yes, contamination was an issue to, but I think the presence of ammonia trumped all. The inky caps liked it! It was such a disaster!
At the time I was describing I think the trays were still uncovered and so they were exposed to light. These days I cover up all the trays, but they are just draped on top and so there is some exposure to the air and I don't like the edges to dry out so I use some humidity during the spawn run.
Anyway, the reason I mentioned the LED lights in the humidifier was because something Chee-Whiz said about the possibility that Cubensis benefits from moonlight got me to thinking that perhaps they use different kinds of light for different stages of growth, and that at certain stages perhaps they shun certain wavelengths. Mostly the humidifier gave off a blue light since there were blue, white, and red LEDs sequencing. My impression is that the blueish LED light inhibits mycelial (i.e., spawning) growth, but there were so many other things going wrong at that time that I cannot be sure. It would be interesting to do the spawn run under the blue LED light.
I've always thought the spawn run was conducted in total darkness and without air exchange to mimic natural conditions, i.e.; the mycelium is gradually growing through the interior of a cow pattie, at full colonization the surface of the mycelium makes contact with air and light. Perhaps the sunlight provides the shock that triggers pinning while the moonlight stimulates the fruitbody's growth to maturity?
I'm not so well educated in the physics of light that I can spin any details off the top of my head (and that is where I am writing from at the moment), but perhaps an experiment that provided imitation sunlight for the pinning, and imitation moonlight for the maturation might be of interest? I mean, currently it seems the accepted wisdom is that full spectrum 6500 K is the best, but this may be simply because it has all of the needed wavelengths rolled into one, and not because it is addressing the specific needs of the fungus. My friend from Louisiana Bijou tells me he always hunted shrooms on the full moon nights because that was when he'd find the most!
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