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 Kickle
A Dying Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 13,175
Last seen: 27 minutes, 48 seconds
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 elephants and death 
#13286152 - 10/03/10 10:20 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Watching a documentary on elephants called "Echo of the Elephants." really well put together. There is a part where the elephant family being followed comes across the remains of other elephants. The elephants behavior shocked me.
They caressed the bones, tried to find the skull, and even carried some parts away as they left. Apparantly they will even bury exposed carcasses and become much quieter in the presense of a dead elephant. All of this behavior is unique to the remains of elephants alone and is not generalized to any other remains.
So I ask you, do elephants understand their impermanence?
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 Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 18,289
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Re: elephants and death [Re: Kickle]
#13286262 - 10/03/10 10:45 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Elephants are one of the few species that pass the Mirror Test, along with chimps and dolphins.
The Mirror Test is where they take an unconscious animal, paint a mark on their body where they can't see it without a mirror, then put a mirror in their environment.
Most animals will ignore the image in the mirror or sometimes become aggressive toward it as if it's another animal. But animals that pass the test will suddenly stop and turn sideways to examine the mark on their body and they'll try to pull their skin to get a better direct view. Chimps have been observed examining their genitals and butt in the mirror.
Elephants exhibit the same types of behavior. They seem to be aware of themselves and their place in the environment. I'm not surprised that they seem to have some awareness of mortality too.
Elephant death anxiety! Woohoo! 
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"The axioms for a group are short and natural... Yet somehow hidden behind these axioms is the monster simple group, a huge and extraordinary mathematical object, which appears to rely on numerous bizarre coincidences to exist. The axioms for groups give no obvious hint that anything like this exists." -- Richard Borcherds
If there is a creator, he definitely has a sense of humor.
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OrgoneConclusion
Rico Suave
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 35,736
Loc: Candyland
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Re: elephants and death [Re: Diploid]
#13286445 - 10/03/10 11:25 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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I feel sad for elephants that are allergic to peanuts.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,497
Loc: underbelly
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Re: elephants and death [Re: Kickle]
#13286556 - 10/03/10 11:48 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Watching a documentary on elephants called "Echo of the Elephants." really well put together. There is a part where the elephant family being followed comes across the remains of other elephants. The elephants behavior shocked me.
They caressed the bones, tried to find the skull, and even carried some parts away as they left. Apparantly they will even bury exposed carcasses and become much quieter in the presense of a dead elephant. All of this behavior is unique to the remains of elephants alone and is not generalized to any other remains.
So I ask you, do elephants understand their impermanence?
They may. Sort of sticks a pin in the balloon of human emotional specialness and superiority doesn't it.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Kickle
A Dying Hope
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 13,175
Last seen: 27 minutes, 48 seconds
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Re: elephants and death [Re: Icelander]
#13286585 - 10/03/10 11:55 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Oh yeah. But then again the idea of emotional superiority is itself emotionally immature. Needing to be superior to feel good 
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quinn
out of k3ybo4rd
Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 4,899
Loc: (usually) above sea level
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Re: elephants and death [Re: Kickle]
#13286664 - 10/04/10 12:15 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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i am superior.
i am super.
i go to super markets.
i make super savings.
then i eat super.
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the danger of the baobabs is little understood and considerable risks would be run by anyone who might get lost on an asteroid
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,497
Loc: underbelly
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Re: elephants and death [Re: quinn]
#13286770 - 10/04/10 12:40 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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It's been a somewhat common claim around these parts that humans are somehow superior and divine or some such because we have all these developed emotional states and supposed intelligence. I'm not convinced.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Holoverse
Abres Los Ojos
Registered: 06/06/10
Posts: 330
Last seen: 11 days, 14 hours
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Re: elephants and death [Re: Icelander]
#13289039 - 10/04/10 05:06 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
It's been a somewhat common claim around these parts that humans are somehow superior and divine or some such because we have all these developed emotional states and supposed intelligence. I'm not convinced.
Yeah me neither.
Either EVERYTHINGS divine/perfect, and a part of God.
Or nothing is, and its all a self-organizing accident of a scale we cannot even comprehend.
But, there can be none of this, animals are unholy and we are.
Or we are spiritual and animals are automatons....etc etc.
Its bullshit.
All living beings have life inside them.
Our life inside us, is no better than the life inside a bee, or a cat.
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cc2
Mush
Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 2,106
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Re: elephants and death [Re: Icelander]
#13289378 - 10/04/10 06:19 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
It's been a somewhat common claim around these parts that humans are somehow superior and divine or some such because we have all these developed emotional states and supposed intelligence. I'm not convinced.
 gotta find out 
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,497
Loc: underbelly
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Re: elephants and death [Re: cc2]
#13289476 - 10/04/10 06:38 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Been there done that.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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I AM SWIM
doin' thangs
Registered: 12/24/08
Posts: 9,695
Loc: Feels Changsta Man
Last seen: 1 year, 25 days
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Re: elephants and death [Re: Icelander]
#13289528 - 10/04/10 06:46 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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I tripped on L when albert hoffman died.
the trip centered around that one elephant that took a strong dose of acid and died.
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_history4.shtml
basically death was a joke and thangs, and the elephant thang was some big cosmic joke 
lol then there was a thang about how kids were getting killed by bunk beds, and 
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,497
Loc: underbelly
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Re: elephants and death [Re: I AM SWIM]
#13289625 - 10/04/10 07:04 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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It might be fun to try an experiment on you.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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