|
 760Rollz
Out the game for now. Peace all
 
Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 403
Loc: USA 
Last seen: 5 months, 14 days
|
 PF Tek Substrate preperations 
#13165215 - 09/08/10 12:40 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
|
|
After you have prepared and sterilized your substrate jars how long can you sit on them without using them? Could you sit on them for a little while before inoculating them with spores and still expect the jars to colonize once you do noc em up if you followed all the necessary precautions to insure every thing is indeed sterile?
The reason I ask is because I am about to have everything I need for the PF tek minus the spore syringes. I am considering preparing everything now and just waiting for the spores. My thoughts on this is that if I prepare everything, then just put the substrate jars aside for a little while then I would be able to see if the jar is going to grow green mold or if the jars are clean. I don't know if there is any truth to this thought so I am asking you people to help me out.
So should I prepare the jars and just wait, will that make a diference? Or should I just wait till I have the spore syringe in hand to worry about preparing the substrate jars?
Thanks,
Mr. X
--------------------
 
|
 dangermike78
No Bull!
Registered: 03/11/10
Posts: 887
Loc: Sum wheres?
|
Re: PF Tek Substrate preparations [Re: 760Rollz]
#13165262 - 09/08/10 12:48 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Personally I'd just wait till your spores to arrive. The longer your jars sit with out them, the better the chance of infection.
|
pyronym
society sucks
Registered: 08/26/10
Posts: 261
Loc: Durkadurkastan
Last seen: 9 months, 27 days
|
Re: PF Tek Substrate preparations [Re: dangermike78]
#13165299 - 09/08/10 12:54 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
|
|
I just watched the tracking on my spores and I prepared my jars the night before delivery so they had a full 24 hours to cool. I would assume once you open your pot or pc that the risk for contam begins. I would also think that anything that may not be 100% sterilized would have a chance to grow before your myc even has a chance to begin colonizing
--------------------
Later,
Tom
My first growlog
|
SomeGuy
I feel better now :)
Registered: 04/18/10
Posts: 7,315
Loc:
Last seen: 7 hours, 40 minutes
|
Re: PF Tek Substrate preparations [Re: pyronym]
#13165404 - 09/08/10 01:19 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
|
|
they are correct. Sterilization does not kill 100% of bacteria. It does knock the level down low enough that mycelium can outcompete it for substrate. Also the shelf life of wet BRF is very short.
|
Mad_Hatter2004
Surfista Amigo
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 2,298
Loc: Somewhere in teh Northern...
Last seen: 10 months, 28 days
|
Re: PF Tek Substrate preparations [Re: SomeGuy]
#13165452 - 09/08/10 01:29 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
paducahovoids said:
they are correct. Sterilization does not kill 100% of bacteria. It does knock the level down low enough that mycelium can outcompete it for substrate. Also the shelf life of wet BRF is very short.
Um..okay that makes no sense whatsoever and I think you have it confused with pasteurization.
Sterilization is a term referring to any process that eliminates (removes) or kills all forms of life, including transmissible agents (such as fungi, bacteria, viruses, spore forms, etc.) present on a surface, contained in a fluid, in medication, or in a compound such as biological culture media.
Pasteurization is a process of heating a food, usually liquid, to a specific temperature for a definite length of time, and then cooling it immediately. This process slows microbial growth in food. The process was named after its creator, French chemist and microbiologist Louis Pasteur. The first pasteurization test was completed by Louis Pasteur and Claude Bernard on April 20, 1864. The process was originally conceived as a way of preventing wine and beer from souring.[1]
Pasteurization is not intended to destroy all pathogenic micro-organisms in the food or liquid. Instead, pasteurization aims to reduce the number of viable pathogens so they are unlikely to cause disease (assuming pasteurization product is stored as indicated and consumed before its expiration date).
So when you sterilize something,you kill all organisms both beneficial and non beneficial.
When you pasteurize you kill only the non beneficial organisms leaving the beneficial organisms to help ward off any contaminants.
--------------------
 7 days without waves makes one weak!
|
SomeGuy
I feel better now :)
Registered: 04/18/10
Posts: 7,315
Loc:
Last seen: 7 hours, 40 minutes
|
|
sterilization kills 99.9% of bacteria. That 1% equals alot when you realize a cup of grain has 200,000,000...2,000,000 to be precise
|
Mad_Hatter2004
Surfista Amigo
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 2,298
Loc: Somewhere in teh Northern...
Last seen: 10 months, 28 days
|
Re: PF Tek Substrate preparations [Re: SomeGuy]
#13165510 - 09/08/10 01:42 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
paducahovoids said:
sterilization kills 99.9% of bacteria. That 1% equals alot when you realize a cup of grain has 200,000,000...2,000,000 to be precise
Okay,I'll give you that...but I think you should have added that in your OP as to not confuse anyone.
Actually..no I am not ready to give you that...Sterilization kills all organisms....if your grain jars go south it's because of insufficient sterilization,or you messed up somewhere after sterilization and introduced contaminant mold spores...or moisture content was too high and you got bacterial contamination.
--------------------
7 days without waves makes one weak!
Edited by Mad_Hatter2004 (09/08/10 01:45 PM)
|
SomeGuy
I feel better now :)
Registered: 04/18/10
Posts: 7,315
Loc:
Last seen: 7 hours, 40 minutes
|
|
Quote:
Mad_Hatter2004 said:
Quote:
paducahovoids said:
sterilization kills 99.9% of bacteria. That 1% equals alot when you realize a cup of grain has 200,000,000...2,000,000 to be precise
Okay,I'll give you that...but I think you should have added that in your OP as to not confuse anyone.
your right, my bad, also I should have said 200,000 to be precise. I missed the decimal
|
mojoganjaman
Stranger
Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 162
Loc: lost in the delta quadran...
Last seen: 2 days, 17 hours
|
Re: PF Tek Substrate preparations [Re: SomeGuy]
#13165759 - 09/08/10 02:28 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
|
|
can you re-pasteurize/sterilize PF jars????...or would you lose the moisture...mine are a week old and my syringes seem to have taken the long way here...the jars have not been opened but have tape over innoc holes...all help appreciated
--------------------
if the dog hadn't stopped for a shit he woulda caught the rabbit
|
Mad_Hatter2004
Surfista Amigo
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 2,298
Loc: Somewhere in teh Northern...
Last seen: 10 months, 28 days
|
Re: PF Tek Substrate preparations [Re: mojoganjaman]
#13165779 - 09/08/10 02:30 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Why did you go and make your substrate before you even had your spores...that's just dumb dude (no you're not dumb,what you did was dumb,but hey we all make mistakes and the best thing we can do with those mistakes is learn,right?)
I say dump the substrate and start over once you have the spores.
--------------------
7 days without waves makes one weak!
|
Nibin
Getting there
Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 4,480
Last seen: 4 months, 19 days
|
Re: PF Tek Substrate preperations [Re: 760Rollz]
#13165898 - 09/08/10 02:50 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
|
|
PF tek jars CAN be sterilized properly using a pressure cooker. Even just boiling, if done for a good hour and a half gets good results.
I have had jars sitting in a closet for up to a month after just boiling and they were fine. I'm not saying it is always so, but if done properly and cleanly they last. Just make sure before you inoculate that the contents of the jars look the same as the day you prepared them, not slimy or with anything growing in them.
Grain on the other hand, cannot be sterilized reliably 100% of the time. There tends to be a tiny percentage of bacteria left which will end up multiplying over time.
That said, sitting in my closet right now are 6 grain bags out of a batch of 8 I made up one year ago. 2 went manky and black after a couple of months but the rest are as good as the day I made them (filter patch bags give me better results than jars).
In any case, PF tek jars prepared and sterilized can certainly be kept with the tape and foil still on for a couple of weeks no probs. If any contaminant appears in those two weeks, that jar would have probably contaminated anyway.
--------------------
Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy
|
Numinosum
President of Turd Town
Registered: 05/19/09
Posts: 1,175
|
Re: PF Tek Substrate preparations [Re: SomeGuy]
#13165943 - 09/08/10 02:56 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
paducahovoids said:
sterilization kills 99.9% of bacteria. That 1% equals alot when you realize a cup of grain has 200,000,000...200,000 to be precise
Sorry but I need to disagree. If this were true you wouldn't stand a chance.
If B. subtilis (the endospore forming bacteria we fear) replicated every 4 hours (very generous)
Then in 24 hours you would have 12,800,000 bacteria. Given it can take 5 days for mushroom
spores to germinate, I think your .1% is a bit off.
Now even if you started with 2 bacterial cells... 2 not 200,000...
You would end up with 2,147,483,648 by the time your spores even germinated...
remember that starting with only 2 cells. Thats .000000001%
And I do believe that the replication time is much much shorter.
--------------------
...within my memory is the knowledge of hyper-light drive ships and how to build them.
Doc_T's Efficiency Challenge
|
mojoganjaman
Stranger
Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 162
Loc: lost in the delta quadran...
Last seen: 2 days, 17 hours
|
Re: PF Tek Substrate preparations [Re: Numinosum]
#13166049 - 09/08/10 03:12 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
|
|
thanks for the info guys...will keep these and inspect before innoc...and will prepare a fresh set of jars at the same time...first time for anything is always an experiment/adventure...
--------------------
if the dog hadn't stopped for a shit he woulda caught the rabbit
|
760Rollz
Out the game for now. Peace all
Registered: 03/01/10
Posts: 403
Loc: USA
Last seen: 5 months, 14 days
|
Re: PF Tek Substrate preparations [Re: mojoganjaman]
#13181681 - 09/11/10 06:46 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Ya thanks to every one. I appreciate all the responses.
--------------------
|
RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 36,969
Loc: USA Mountain Northwest
Last seen: 7 hours, 7 minutes
|
Re: PF Tek Substrate preparations [Re: 760Rollz]
#13181735 - 09/11/10 07:00 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Actually, we when we use the term 'sterilization' in mycology, it's always relative. There's a big difference between a surgeon putting a scalpel in an autoclave and us putting most grains in a jar, and then putting that in a pressure cooker.
It's inevitable that sometimes a few bacteria are going to survive, but they're knocked back enough that our mycelium can capture the substrate before the bacteria can multiply to numbers that ruin our grow. There's been a lot of talk in other threads lately about biology professors and textbooks, etc., but the fact remains, sterilized grains using the term 'sterilized' the way we do in mycology, doesn't mean the grains will stay fresh indefinitely.
In addition, our filters are not 100% effective either. A 99.99% filter can allow .001% of the contaminants to pass through and still meet specs. This is why we want to sterilize our media, and then inoculate as soon as practical after it's cool.
RR
--------------------
www.mushroomvideos.com
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
|
rustycobwebs
Stranger with gun
Registered: 12/17/05
Posts: 749
Last seen: 11 days, 18 hours
|
Re: PF Tek Substrate preparations [Re: RogerRabbit]
#13182953 - 09/12/10 01:45 AM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Also leaving your jars sit could mess with your moisture content, I imagine.
I prep and pressure cook the day before inoculation. So far great success with clean quick germination, for the most part.
--------------------
...Or so i hear.
|
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit 
Reply 
