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 aj123
smot poking
Registered: 09/08/08
Posts: 777
Loc: Easter island 
Last seen: 6 hours, 11 minutes
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 E-Cigarettes Spark New Smoking War 
#13098976 - 08/25/10 10:15 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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E-Cigarettes Spark New Smoking War
Carl Kiilsgaard for The Wall Street Journal
ELMHURST, Ill.—Victoria Vasconcellos, the petite founder of an Internet retailer in this Chicago suburb, is in the thick of a regulatory battle that could affect millions of American cigarette smokers.
Ms. Vasconcellos imports electronic cigarettes from a Chinese manufacturer and sells them on her website, Cignot.com, to 14,000 customers. The 48-year-old is part of a growing legion of e-cigarette purveyors who are defying the Food and Drug Administration, which contends the nascent nicotine products are drug devices that require pre-market approval and may pose their own health risks. The FDA began intercepting shipments of the products from China two years ago.
E-cigarettes are battery-powered tubes that turn nicotine-laced liquid into a vapor mist. Sellers say they are potentially less harmful than cigarettes because they don't have the toxins of burning tobacco. A growing number of people who use them say they are an effective way to quit smoking.
The future of the fledgling industry—estimated at $100 million in annual sales and rising—may hinge on the outcome of a case scheduled for oral arguments before a federal appellate court in Washington, D.C., next month. The FDA is fighting to regulate the products as drug-delivery devices, similar to nicotine gums, patches or other nicotine-replacement products. Such a classification would subject e-cigarettes to lengthy and expensive trials to prove they are safe and effective.
But many e-cigarette companies argue that their products are designed to be recreational alternatives to cigarettes, not devices to wean people off nicotine. They say they couldn't afford the high cost of clinical trials, and that any such mandate would drive many of them out of business or force the industry to go underground.
The standoff underscores a growing rift in the public health community about how to solve one of the country's most vexing health problems. About 400,000 Americans die each year of smoking-related disease. Many public-health advocates, including the FDA, say e-cigarettes are unproven as a quit-smoking tool and could prompt nonsmokers to take up the nicotine habit.
But a number of public-health advocates, including the American Association of Public Health Physicians, argue that conventional policies for getting people off cigarettes have fallen short. These groups argue that encouraging smokers to switch to e-cigarettes and other smokeless tobacco products could sharply reduce tobacco-related disease in the U.S.
Dr. Joel Nitzkin, chairman of a tobacco control task force of the public physicians group, says e-cigarettes may prove to be the most promising smoking cessation product currently on the market. He thinks they should be regulated to ensure manufacturing standards are met. But he thinks the FDA's tobacco regulations, rather than the more demanding drug device rules, provide the best framework.
Indeed, the FDA could regulate e-cigarettes under the landmark 2009 law that gave the agency broad power to regulate tobacco products. Under these rules, e-cigarette makers wouldn't be required to go through lengthy and costly pre-market approvals, in most cases. But the FDA maintains that e-cigarettes are actually drug-delivery devices that aren't subject to the tobacco regulations.
While the federal case is pending, sellers of e-cigarettes and "juice"—the nicotine-laced liquid that goes into the devices—continue to pop up online and in malls. 7-Eleven Inc. stores in California, New York, Texas and a handful of other states recently began selling an e-cigarette brand. Costco Wholesale Corp. in April stopped selling a version on its website because of concerns about the FDA's stance. Wal-Mart Stores Inc. also briefly offered a product on its website this year but discontinued it because it didn't attract much demand and the company was concerned about the FDA's position, a spokesman said.
E-cigarettes have caught fire in part because they mimic the experience of smoking. When a user sucks on an e-cigarette, an atomizer turns the liquid inside into a vapor—which is why the practice is called "vaping" instead of smoking. Consumers typically pay $40 to $120 for a starter kit, and then pay smaller amounts for liquid refills.
E-cigarettes typically contain a solution of propylene glycol—a chemical used to make artificial smoke in theatrical productions—water, nicotine and flavorings such as "espresso" and "simply strawberry." The amount of nicotine varies to accommodate different consumers' preferences. Some e-cigarettes contain no nicotine.
Some scientists say e-cigarettes are probably less harmful than cigarettes because they don't involve the burning of tobacco, which produces most of the toxins that cause cancer and other tobacco-related diseases.
However, no published, peer-reviewed studies have examined the long-term health risks of e-cigarettes. Some scientists are concerned that prolonged exposure to vaporized forms of propylene glycol—generally recognized by the FDA as safe for use in foods such as salad dressings, cake mixes and sodas—might cause harm.
"There are a lot of reasons to believe logically that e-cigarettes offer a safer profile, but I want data that demonstrates safety," says Thomas Eissenberg, a psychology professor at Virginia Commonwealth University who studies nicotine addiction.
In a report released last year, the FDA said it conducted a preliminary review of a few e-cigarettes and found poor quality control. Some cartridges that claimed not to contain nicotine actually did, and one of the 18 samples had trace amounts of diethylene glycol, a chemical used in antifreeze that is toxic to humans. The FDA says the amount of nicotine delivered varies and isn't standardized, which also raises safety concerns.
E-cigarettes were introduced in China in the mid-2000s and hit the U.S. in 2007, industry executives say. Some countries, such as Canada and Australia, effectively ban their sale, saying they have yet to be fully evaluated for safety and effectiveness. New Jersey and New York's Suffolk County bar use of the product wherever regular cigarettes are prohibited.
The National Vapers Club, an advocacy group for e-cigarette users in Valley Stream, N.Y., estimates that at least 1 million people in the U.S. use the products. The group's president, Spike Babaian, says the number of U.S. e-cigarette companies has ballooned to about 300 from roughly a dozen two years ago.
The FDA began detaining some shipments from China in June 2008 on the grounds that the products were unapproved drug devices aimed at treating nicotine addiction. Smoking Everywhere Inc., a Florida distributor of e-cigarettes, sued the agency in April 2009, claiming that the FDA had no jurisdiction over the products. Another purveyor, Sottera Inc. of Scottsdale, Ariz., later joined the case as a plaintiff.
While the case was pending, Congress, in an unrelated move, passed landmark legislation that gave the FDA authority to regulate tobacco products, which lawmakers broadly defined as "any product made or derived from tobacco that is intended for human consumption." But the agency continued to maintain that e-cigarettes were drug devices, not a tobacco product like a pack of cigarettes or can of snuff.
Richard J. Leon, a judge in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, issued a preliminary injunction against the FDA in January, ruling that Smoking Everywhere and Sottera generally marketed their e-cigarettes as recreational alternatives to cigarettes, rather than as quit-smoking aids. The judge called the FDA's approach a "tenacious drive to maximize its regulatory power." He noted that e-cigarettes contained nicotine derived from tobacco and said they appeared to fall under the provisions of the new tobacco law.
The FDA won a stay of Judge Leon's ruling, pending an appeal to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit. The agency is still detaining and refusing entry of e-cigarettes, a spokeswoman says.
Several former cigarette smokers say they were able to kick their habit in a matter of days by switching to e-cigarettes. "My breathing is better, my sleeping is better," says Greg Hester, 42, an information-systems worker in Atlanta who had smoked cigarettes for more than 20 years.
Ms. Vasconcellos, the Illinois entrepreneur, says she began smoking at 14 and eventually smoked two packs per day. She tried unsuccessfully to quit using nicotine patches and other products. In early 2009, she tried an e-cigarette and has been using them since.
Ms. Vasconcellos, who previously worked as a computer consultant, found e-cigarettes "so life-changing that I had to let other people know about it." She began Cignot Inc. last year and says it has generated about $1.5 million in sales. Her company's website makes no specific health claims, but calls e-cigarettes a "marvelous alternative to tobacco cigarettes."
Ms. Vasconcellos says that she has lost tens of thousands of dollars on shipments from China that were blocked by the FDA and that the agency's actions make it tough to do business. The FDA has refused to allow e-cigarette battery chargers and other products Ms. Vasconcellos has ordered from China and other countries, according to FDA documents reviewed by The Wall Street Journal. To try to stay under the radar, Ms. Vasconcellos orders shipments in smaller packages and has them sent to friends' homes around the U.S.
The FDA spokeswoman says the agency has refused the entry of more than 700 shipments of e-cigarettes nationally since it began detaining and reviewing the products two years ago.
Steve McVey, owner of PureSmoker.com in Goodlettsville, Tenn., near Nashville, had $59,000 in shipments from China seized last year and has faced lengthy delays on other shipments as federal inspectors scrutinized them.
"We've almost closed up shop three or four times," Mr. McVey says.
Nevertheless, Mr. McVey says his company, Pure Enterprises Inc., collected $1.3 million in revenue last year.
To counteract pressure from the FDA, the company has begun producing some products in the U.S. Mr. McVey hired 28-year-old Jeff Hildebrand, a biomedical sciences graduate from Texas A&M University, to brew e-cigarette juice in a small laboratory.
Several other companies are producing e-cigarette liquids in the U.S., partly because of the concern the FDA raised last year about quality control in Chinese factories.
Johnson Creek Enterprises LLC, a Wisconsin firm that makes its own "smoke juice," says it lists all the ingredients on its packaging and uses childproof caps. (Nicotine, the main addictive ingredient in tobacco products, can be poisonous in high doses. It generally is thought to be noncarcinogenic, though it has been linked to high blood pressure.)
Christian Berkey, a former Apple Inc. assistant store manager who founded Johnson Creek Enterprises, says he would prefer to have the industry regulated as a tobacco product to create standards for quality and establish a level playing field.
Johnson Creek sells its juice for e-cigarettes to blu Cigs, one of the industry's largest players. Jason Healy, president of blu Cigs, says the Charlotte, N.C., company's sales are on pace to reach $30 million this year.
The FDA spokeswoman says the agency is aware that some companies are manufacturing e-cigarette liquids and other equipment in the U.S. but has taken no enforcement actions against them to date. She declines to elaborate on why.
Several advocates for tobacco control, including the American Lung Association and the American Legacy Foundation, say e-cigarettes require deeper study. These advocates are concerned the products could appeal to nonsmokers, especially youth, and encourage them to smoke regular cigarettes. Some tobacco-control advocates also worry that e-cigarettes are often sold online, where it is difficult to verify that a buyer is at least 18 years old.
Owners of U.S. e-cigarette companies say that any federal-court ruling allowing the FDA to treat the products as drug devices and require pre-market approval would drive many of them out of business and create a black market.
"If the government tries to suppress this, it will go underground," says David Dettloff, 48, owner of FreedomSmokeUSA, a Tucson, Ariz., seller of e-cigarette juices. "Ninety percent of everyone who vapes is so glad to be off cigarettes that they would buy it in the drug market."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704557704575437710870116450.html
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The Green Bastard
friendly hippie
Registered: 08/13/10
Posts: 534
Loc: parts unkown....
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: E-Cigarettes Spark New Smoking War [Re: aj123]
#13099029 - 08/25/10 10:34 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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As a cig smoker and having personally tried these e-cigs I personally don't care for them. I felt like I couldn't get a real drag and the "satisfaction" I normally get after a smoke was just not there. I just kept puffing away to try and get that desired nicotine buzz but it never really happened. Don't get me wrong if I was dying for a cig it would help but I'll never waste my money on those they are an even bigger waste that just smoking.
Plus my lit cig doesn't have a battery that dies in the middle of my drag. 
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Well, if that's the case, then Julian, he is like a superhero. Holy fuck, Ricky, you know who you are? You're Dope-Man! He can smoke a pound in a single bound.
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yaateeh
Stranger
Registered: 05/31/08
Posts: 70
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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I think the point here is that the FDA is banning these things until they have been tested and they can see if they don't cause harm to the user.
FUCKERS....ciggaretes are very very harmful to the users and I don't see you pulling them off the shelves...sounds like you are trying to protect your tax revenue rather than the people.
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blujay
pass it b*ch!
Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 5,101
Last seen: 27 days, 17 hours
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Quote:
The Green Bastard said:
As a cig smoker and having personally tried these e-cigs I personally don't care for them. I felt like I couldn't get a real drag and the "satisfaction" I normally get after a smoke was just not there. I just kept puffing away to try and get that desired nicotine buzz but it never really happened. Don't get me wrong if I was dying for a cig it would help but I'll never waste my money on those they are an even bigger waste that just smoking.
Plus my lit cig doesn't have a battery that dies in the middle of my drag.
Yeah but your lit cigarette comes with a side of cancer (don't get me wrong, I puffed a Black&Mild this morning) and the E-cig might stave cravings without supplying carcinogens, making it possibly the best, cheapest quit-smoking device every invented.
Me, I've just got down the occasionally smoking a cigar. I'd like to stop doing that too, though.
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wat man rly
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 I R Crankey
happiness is a warm gun.
Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 1,738
Loc: Europe, Canada 
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Re: E-Cigarettes Spark New Smoking War [Re: yaateeh]
#13099352 - 08/25/10 12:19 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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if this shit gets banned it's clear how insanely corrupt the american government is. or whoever it is that bans substances.
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blujay
pass it b*ch!
Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 5,101
Last seen: 27 days, 17 hours
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Re: E-Cigarettes Spark New Smoking War [Re: I R Crankey]
#13099363 - 08/25/10 12:22 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah, I want out. Bad. This is nuts. There are too many of them to fix it, and it's too large for any group to stop because every time we organize they disperse us, send us to jail, and make sure the media doesn't say a thing about it. These days marches 10,000 strong go unreported while the media talks about an un-mosque.
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wat man rly
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Dango_Bill
Seven
Registered: 12/01/07
Posts: 307
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Quote:
The Green Bastard said:
Plus my lit cig doesn't have a battery that dies in the middle of my drag.
Your lit cig requires a lighter, and those die off after time too. Just like you know to get a new lighter when yours starts getting low on fluid, e-cig smokers know when it's time to replace their battery - and keep spares around, just as you would keep more than one lighter around.
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Adamist
Registered: 11/24/01
Posts: 9,855
Loc: ∞ Ocala ∞
Last seen: 7 days, 23 hours
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Re: E-Cigarettes Spark New Smoking War [Re: aj123]
#13104114 - 08/26/10 08:19 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Once the E-cig companies come up with enough money to start lobbying like tobacco companies, they will magically become approved and "safe".
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 { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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blujay
pass it b*ch!
Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 5,101
Last seen: 27 days, 17 hours
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Re: E-Cigarettes Spark New Smoking War [Re: Adamist]
#13104267 - 08/26/10 09:42 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Adamist said:
Once the E-cig companies come up with enough money to start lobbying like tobacco companies, they will magically become approved and "safe".
Compared to cigarettes, they are. The only toxicity is that of taking in nicotine through the lungs alone. Other drugs are delivered this way.
You don't know what you're talking about. E-cigs are the best thing to happen to quitting, I think that's why they don't want them hitting it big.
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wat man rly
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Adamist
Registered: 11/24/01
Posts: 9,855
Loc: ∞ Ocala ∞
Last seen: 7 days, 23 hours
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Re: E-Cigarettes Spark New Smoking War [Re: blujay]
#13104329 - 08/26/10 10:08 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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I was just pointing out that the "safety" of a product seems to be determined by how profitable it is, and how much lobbying power it's company has. 
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{ { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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badchad
Mad Scientist
Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 9,143
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Re: E-Cigarettes Spark New Smoking War [Re: blujay]
#13104395 - 08/26/10 10:46 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
blujay said:
Compared to cigarettes, they are. The only toxicity is that of taking in nicotine through the lungs alone. Other drugs are delivered this way.
This is part of the deabte.
There has been little (if any) systematic study on e-cigs. Further, there is no regulation of them whatsoever. Essentially, they can put whatever they want in them.
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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.
Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.
...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.
Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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blujay
pass it b*ch!
Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 5,101
Last seen: 27 days, 17 hours
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Re: E-Cigarettes Spark New Smoking War [Re: badchad]
#13104682 - 08/26/10 12:22 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
badchad said:
Quote:
blujay said:
Compared to cigarettes, they are. The only toxicity is that of taking in nicotine through the lungs alone. Other drugs are delivered this way.
This is part of the deabte.
There has been little (if any) systematic study on e-cigs. Further, there is no regulation of them whatsoever. Essentially, they can put whatever they want in them.
All that comes out is water vapor and nicotine. I can't find my link, but I've seen a sort of study where they were talking about them early on before they got popular as a breakthrough.
Besides, cigarette companies seem to be able to put whatever they want in their cigarettes, including shit like lead and fermaldahyde, so why are we so worried about e-cigs, where you can test the liquid and see it's glycogen and nicotine suspension>? You're essentially breathing in fog machine smoke.
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wat man rly
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badchad
Mad Scientist
Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 9,143
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Re: E-Cigarettes Spark New Smoking War [Re: blujay]
#13104856 - 08/26/10 01:13 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Like I said, nobody has looked at the contents of e-cigs. The wikipedia entry suggests up to 30 different kinds of "ingredients" in them. So it's likely that it's not just "Water vapor and nicotine" that comes out of them.
Nobody has looked at the ingredients, or the standards under which they are created. Who knows the conditions that they're made under over in China or whatever third world country they may be manufactured in.
On top of that, it may very well be that the actual vaporization/combustion methods are different.
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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.
Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.
...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.
Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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I R Crankey
happiness is a warm gun.
Registered: 01/03/10
Posts: 1,738
Loc: Europe, Canada
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Re: E-Cigarettes Spark New Smoking War [Re: badchad]
#13104870 - 08/26/10 01:17 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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could it be any worse than what cigs are today?
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LongStrangeTrip
Deadhead
Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 4,482
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Re: E-Cigarettes Spark New Smoking War [Re: I R Crankey]
#13104888 - 08/26/10 01:23 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Just to comment, I tried an e-cig a few days ago. Friend told me that you were NOT supposed to inhale the vapor at all; when Idid I coughed and gagged like a bitch. When I just pulled it in and held it in my mouth, like a cigar, though, it was awesome.
Just saying, if you use these things right, you are not even inhaling. I think it's not rediculous to do studies on how they affect or "harm" your lungs (that your not drawing smoke or vapor into), but if the studies mean that these things are no longer available; that's bullshit. Why can't someone do a study WITHOUT pulling them off of the market for years?
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Nothing I say or do is factual; every single thing I write is a work of fiction. Got no idea what I'm talking about here~
"Once in awhile, you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right"~ (Grateful Dead)
"o puer, qui omnia nomini debes"; "You, boy, who owe's everything to a name"~ Mark Anthony
"Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum."; "Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system."~ Cicero
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Society
Pizza Guy
Registered: 07/03/04
Posts: 11,836
Loc: Eating pizza
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Re: E-Cigarettes Spark New Smoking War [Re: yaateeh]
#13104892 - 08/26/10 01:24 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
yaateeh said:
I think the point here is that the FDA is banning these things until they have been tested and they can see if they don't cause harm to the user.
FUCKERS....ciggaretes are very very harmful to the users and I don't see you pulling them off the shelves...sounds like you are trying to protect your tax revenue rather than the people.
The FDA isn't a regulatory institution as is often the misconception. The FDA only responds to economic and political will.
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Delicious Pizza
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badchad
Mad Scientist
Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 9,143
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Re: E-Cigarettes Spark New Smoking War [Re: I R Crankey]
#13105376 - 08/26/10 03:34 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wut a Twist said:
could it be any worse than what cigs are today?
Probably not, but until about a year ago, FDA didn't regulate cigarettes. They still haven't begun to regulate them.
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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.
Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.
...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.
Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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