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 RogerRabbit
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 Re: legal requirements for growing mushrooms  [Re: uncletammy]
#12783854 - 06/22/10 12:56 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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With me, I first got the allergy by growing H ulmarius in my bedroom, where I was sleeping for several hours per day. Later, the allergy included P ostreatus, and only required a few minutes of exposure to get horribly sick. Now, I rush right past wild P ostreatus fruitings whenever I'm hiking in the mountains. I freak out at the very sight of them.
Quote:
uncletammy said:
couldnt one use the same method for "hatching" endospores as is done with grain spawn? It seems to me that a day soak in water would activate endospores and the temperatures reached during pasturation would kill the bacteria.
Nope. Bacteria require sterilization temperatures to nuke them. In addition, soaking in water isn't a cure because many bacterial endospores that germinate begin to produce new endospores within hours, negating the effects of long soak times.
The bottom line is if you supplement, you need to sterilize and keep things sterile until full colonization.
RR
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sashiva
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Re: legal requirements for growing mushrooms [Re: sashiva]
#12783987 - 06/22/10 01:20 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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it's hella (1x10^27 that is) easy to fix the allergy problem. get a HEPA filter for your face
http://www.amazon.com/MSA-Safety-Works-817663-Multi-Purpose/dp/B00009363G/ref=dp_cp_ob_hi_title_0
EDIT: RR, when you talk about supplementing, does that go for everything or just bran and other grains that are exposed to endospores ie not coffee grounds
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"Video games don't affect kids. If Pacman had affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms munching on magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music" -CEO of Nintendo
Edited by sashiva (06/22/10 01:22 PM)
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RogerRabbit
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Re: legal requirements for growing mushrooms [Re: sashiva]
#12784076 - 06/22/10 01:34 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Coffee grounds are so rich, they really should also be kept sterile until colonized. When mixing sawdust substrates, I dump all my spent grounds into the cement mixer I use to stir the sawdust, bran and gypsum. I even empty the leftover liquid coffee into it. However, they get put into filter patch bags and sterilized before being inoculated with grain spawn in front of a laminar flow hood. Otherwise, the coffee would be covered in green mold before the sawdust could get colonized.
I have a whole box of N-95 masks. They don't do squat for oyster spores, although that could be because I have a full beard.
Regardless, oyster mushrooms don't have the financial incentives or market acceptance of shiitake, which is the bottom line. Growing for hobby is one thing, but when you make it your source of income, you have to consider the market and getting paid for all that hard work. Number 1 quality shiitake literally flies off the shelf at the grocery store, especially if you strive to supply just under what the market demands. When the store is out of product for a day or two per week, it creates even more demand than if they were constantly supplied.
RR
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sashiva
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Re: legal requirements for growing mushrooms [Re: RogerRabbit]
#12784186 - 06/22/10 01:54 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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2 things, 1 im not growing oysters, im gonna grow lions mane, i just mentioned that observation as an indication of gourmet mushroom demand. 2, could i just add excessive amounts of spawn, or in my case a mushroom smoothie, to speed up colonization to counteract the mold? could i just soak the woodchips partially in ammonia or some other artificial fert with N to get nitrogen to my myc?
EDIT: also, would either adding whey protein or pasteurizing the sawdust in a 50-75% concentration coffee add the required N?
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"Video games don't affect kids. If Pacman had affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms munching on magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music" -CEO of Nintendo
Edited by sashiva (06/22/10 06:26 PM)
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fungus_tao
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Re: legal requirements for growing mushrooms [Re: sashiva]
#12785605 - 06/22/10 06:15 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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If your not supplementing you can get by with pasteurized wood chips. I wouldn't use chemical fertilizers.
RR, I was at an asian supermarket the other day looking for agar powder and I was astonished at how cheap flowered dry shiitake were. They were VERY well stocked as well. A big bag (looked and felt like ~5 #'s to me, but I couldn't read the package) was $37.
Also, since I don't have a big mushroom cave I'm trying to sell shiitake grow kits on ebay right now. The first one I listed sold for 13.87, the second one went for 1.54. I'm just not seeing a huge demand for them. In fact it seems like the market is saturated. I'm really at a loss right now as to how to proceed.
Tao
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sashiva
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Re: legal requirements for growing mushrooms [Re: fungus_tao]
#12785846 - 06/22/10 07:01 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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this link right here says using chem ferts for yeast is relatively common
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/568215
to quote "There are two kinds of yeast nutrients, one is ammonium phosphate, which is used as a supplemental nitrogen source"
with this in mind, it seems like a cheap, sterilization free, way of getting N to my myc. any thoughts?
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"Video games don't affect kids. If Pacman had affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms munching on magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music" -CEO of Nintendo
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punkin
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Re: legal requirements for growing mushrooms [Re: sashiva]
#12786108 - 06/22/10 07:44 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'm running some trials with di-ammonnium phosphate (dap, the brewing nutrient) atm in this thread .
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sashiva
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Re: legal requirements for growing mushrooms [Re: sashiva]
#12786207 - 06/22/10 07:58 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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how many more days do you think it'll take to see if the DAP increases colonization speed?
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"Video games don't affect kids. If Pacman had affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms munching on magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music" -CEO of Nintendo
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punkin
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Re: legal requirements for growing mushrooms [Re: sashiva]
#12786520 - 06/22/10 08:43 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
sashiva said:
how many more days do you think it'll take to see if the DAP increases colonization speed?
I'll update the thread.
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sashiva
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Re: legal requirements for growing mushrooms [Re: sashiva]
#12787047 - 06/22/10 10:05 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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your thread indicates that the DAP produces no drastic increases in colonization speed. do you predict that it'll help fruits? there must be something in other suppliments that help out cuz atleast with coffee, it speeds up colonization a lot. you should experiment with just soaking your sub in half strength coffee if you want to add N
EDIT: uh RR you say in this thread that the coffee grounds won't work yet in this thread you say "They [coffee grounds] do NOT contaminate before you can get them colonized if you pasteurize first and have them at the proper moisture content. As with all bulk substrates, add gypsum at up to ten percent by volume"
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8468486#8468486
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"Video games don't affect kids. If Pacman had affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms munching on magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music" -CEO of Nintendo
Edited by sashiva (06/22/10 10:27 PM)
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 Numinosum
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Re: legal requirements for growing mushrooms [Re: sashiva]
#12787407 - 06/22/10 11:14 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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RR, when you deliver your shiitakes how do you package them? What is the best way/(most presentable)
to deliver? cardboard box, perforated plastic, paper bag?
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punkin
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Re: legal requirements for growing mushrooms [Re: sashiva]
#12787478 - 06/22/10 11:31 PM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'm not making predictions, only obsevations. I'm trying to learn and develop a system that suits my needs best. I'm a total greenhorn and wading through a lot of conflicting information as best i can...
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curenado
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Re: legal requirements for growing mushrooms [Re: punkin]
#12787818 - 06/23/10 12:28 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Myself, I like corrugated cardboard best and paper bags second. I never use plastic with mushrooms except on forays sometimes.
There is an oyster farm near here that uses styrofoam flats and plastic wrap though...
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Edited by curenado (06/23/10 12:29 AM)
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RogerRabbit
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Re: legal requirements for growing mushrooms [Re: curenado]
#12787869 - 06/23/10 12:40 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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I buy generic fruit packing boxes, 4" tall, open and stackable, by the pallet load. Each will easily hold 5 pounds of shiitake without them getting smashed. Buying by the pallet, they're about 89 cents each. These boxes are made to fit the refrigerated produce isle space, and are what the grocery store displays them in.
I could post the International Paper product number if anyone is interested.
RR
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sashiva
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Re: legal requirements for growing mushrooms [Re: sashiva]
#12788280 - 06/23/10 02:15 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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i'd be interested in that site, also could you adress my prior question about the discrepancy with being able to pasteurize and not for coffee grounds, also if thats not viable, is soaking in half strength coffee an acceptable substitute?
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"Video games don't affect kids. If Pacman had affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms munching on magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music" -CEO of Nintendo
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RogerRabbit
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Re: legal requirements for growing mushrooms [Re: sashiva]
#12789031 - 06/23/10 09:07 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Sashiva, if you're wanting to avoid sterilization, then you need to avoid supplementation. If you simply want to pasteurize your sawdust and colonize in buckets which are not sterile, that's fine, but if you start adding supplements, you're going to get green molds.
I built a bulk sterilizer system with 55 gallon drums that can do over 100 pounds of supplemented sawdust bags at a time. If you're wanting to grow commercially, I know of no cheaper way to do it.
RR
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sashiva
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Re: legal requirements for growing mushrooms [Re: sashiva]
#12789294 - 06/23/10 11:01 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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duly noted RR, its just that im confused by conflicting information that seems to be from you froma prior date. Now when say suppliments in regards to requiring sterilization, do chem ferts count? ie would it be advantageous to add ammonium phosphate to the soaking solution? alternatively, would some mixture of amino acids from a GNC or something be better due to it being a source of N and precursors for stuff? what exactly changed between the time you said "[coffee grounds] do NOT contaminate before you can get them colonized if you pasteurize first and have them at the proper moisture content" and what you're saying now? also a quick search for "coffee pasteurization" results in several successful bulk subs with pasteurized coffee yet according to you, that's not possible
EDIT: "Pasteurize, never sterilize coffee grinds or you're asking for contamination." -RR
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8818684#8818684
wtf
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"Video games don't affect kids. If Pacman had affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms munching on magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music" -CEO of Nintendo
Edited by sashiva (06/23/10 11:22 AM)
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sashiva
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Re: legal requirements for growing mushrooms [Re: sashiva]
#12795392 - 06/24/10 10:39 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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bump
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"Video games don't affect kids. If Pacman had affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms munching on magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music" -CEO of Nintendo
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RogerRabbit
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Re: legal requirements for growing mushrooms [Re: sashiva]
#12795457 - 06/24/10 11:03 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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Ah, it's important to make a differentiation between coffee grinds and liquid coffee. Also, be sure to use spent coffee grinds, not fresh.
It also depends on if one is talking about a cubensis bulk substrate(which was the advice given in your quote from me above) where coffee grinds are added to compost or manure which will fully colonize and begin fruiting in two weeks, and a shiitake substrate where the material is left in the spawn bag for 2 months before fruiting.
I've not seen one whit of good from chemical fertilizers when used in mushroom cultivation. Mushrooms consume solid food, so you want to stick to substrates and not chemicals.
If you're wanting to grow shiitake without sterilization, you'll probably want to stick to outdoor growing.
RR
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sashiva
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Re: legal requirements for growing mushrooms [Re: sashiva]
#12795521 - 06/24/10 11:22 AM (2 years, 10 months ago) |
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but i'm not growing shiitake. im growing lions mane, which according to grow logs i've read, will colonize in around 2 weeks meaning that advise stands. does that mean pasteurized coffee is like a crunch wrap supreme and good to go? if so, do i have to pasteurize with boiling water or can i soak it in a bleach solution and let it drain/let the bleach brake down overnight
EDIT: what does "I've not seen one whit of good from chemical fertilizers" mean? also i'd be ferting the substrate in the soak anyways so the whole "how will the myc eat it" problem would be a non-issue
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"Video games don't affect kids. If Pacman had affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms munching on magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music" -CEO of Nintendo
Edited by sashiva (06/24/10 12:25 PM)
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