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 c0sm0nautt
 
Registered: 05/19/08
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Loc: NY
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 Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist  [Re: Kickle]
#12536606 - 05/10/10 02:04 PM (3 years, 12 days ago) |
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I'd say isn't a Universal truth that we all want to end suffering for ourselves (and some people others) and overall be happy?
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The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
    
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 Kickle
A Dying Hope
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#12536666 - 05/10/10 02:15 PM (3 years, 12 days ago) |
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But why is that a universal truth?
What's the universal truth behind the why?
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The Chronic
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: Kickle]
#12536680 - 05/10/10 02:18 PM (3 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
yeah... but why?
Why is the natural state of enlightenment love and compassion?
Why should questioning stop and be convinced this is the way it is?
The realization of a singular (universal) truth must be integral in nature
Integrity, inclusiveness, is love, is compassion
Questioning stops when the mind stops
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Kickle
A Dying Hope
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: The Chronic]
#12536870 - 05/10/10 03:08 PM (3 years, 12 days ago) |
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Integrity, inclusiveness, is love, is compassion
So you're saying that it is loving your self.
But why must we love our self?
Obviously I see the positive benefits of doing so, but there can always be a choice.
Why should someone choose to help themselves rather than harm?
Who really cares?
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The Chronic
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: Kickle]
#12536946 - 05/10/10 03:25 PM (3 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Why should someone choose to help themselves rather than harm?
Who really cares?
The being who experiences feeling harmed probably cares 
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Kickle
A Dying Hope
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: The Chronic]
#12537244 - 05/10/10 04:13 PM (3 years, 12 days ago) |
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So the universal 'why' is suffering.
We all feel suffering, and thus, we all feel compassion for that suffering.
Compassion could not exist without suffering.
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The Chronic
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: Kickle]
#12537270 - 05/10/10 04:18 PM (3 years, 12 days ago) |
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Certainly, if we experienced no suffering there would be no 'why?'
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deff
just relax
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: Kickle]
#12537302 - 05/10/10 04:22 PM (3 years, 12 days ago) |
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yeah, compassion is simply the wish to remove suffering
most people are compassionate towards themselves and some close people (often misguidedly) but the compassion spoken about in buddhism is non-discriminatory, it's like the sun whose rays fall on all pools of water without direct intention
what's good to remember is relative vs absolute bodhicitta - where relative could be "i want to liberate all beings" and absolute is "there is no one truly to liberate" - a union of the two is most effective i think
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The Chronic
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: deff]
#12537345 - 05/10/10 04:29 PM (3 years, 12 days ago) |
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I feel somehow, the seeing that there is no one to gain liberation, at the same time liberates all things
The absolute can not in anyway exclude any relativeness, its all included, so although the absolute is true - liberation is our nature
In that realization the absolute truth gets reflected into the relative, so beings then become liberated, seeing they are already liberated
Im glad your back, that may make sense to someone now 
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Kickle
A Dying Hope
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: The Chronic]
#12537355 - 05/10/10 04:31 PM (3 years, 12 days ago) |
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Right... which leads me right back to why someone who isn't identified with anything but awareness, would feel the need to bring others to this state. Unless they identified to some extent with their memory of suffering, they should no longer know what suffering is. Unless you are suffering even when you've awoken...
I'll just cut to the chase.
Compassion is really a desire to get rid of negative emotions.
Mirror neurons create the emotions (e.g., suffering) that another is feeling, within you.
So you're doing everything you can to change that feeling to something more comfortable.
Even if you don't identify with this process, it occurs.
Some people deal with it by removing the negative stimulus (remove negative people from their life)
Others deal with it by trying to get the other person to see where it comes from.
One is compassionate towards the other, one is compassionate towards the self.
Compassion can also be called aversion to negative stimuli.
AKA if we didn't have mirror neurons, this would not be a universal truth at all.
The compassion would be always towards the self and never towards the other.
Edited by Kickle (05/10/10 04:36 PM)
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Kickle
A Dying Hope
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: deff]
#12537422 - 05/10/10 04:41 PM (3 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
deff said:
yeah, compassion is simply the wish to remove suffering
That's not simple at all! It's a wonderful gift!
Quote:
most people are compassionate towards themselves and some close people (often misguidedly) but the compassion spoken about in buddhism is non-discriminatory, it's like the sun whose rays fall on all pools of water without direct intention
That's what being a Buddha is all about. Transcending individual suffering. But even a Buddha can still see suffering in others. They still have a mirror in them. And yes, a mirror will reflect whatever comes into contact with it. It has no way to discriminate... it can't NOT reflect.
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Kickle
A Dying Hope
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: The Chronic]
#12537440 - 05/10/10 04:44 PM (3 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
I feel somehow, the seeing that there is no one to gain liberation, at the same time liberates all things
The absolute can not in anyway exclude any relativeness, its all included, so although the absolute is true - liberation is our nature
In that realization the absolute truth gets reflected into the relative, so beings then become liberated, seeing they are already liberated
Im glad your back, that may make sense to someone now
I understand this just fine.
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deff
just relax
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: Kickle] 1
#12537518 - 05/10/10 04:59 PM (3 years, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Quote:
deff said:
yeah, compassion is simply the wish to remove suffering
That's not simple at all! It's a wonderful gift!
simple doesn't exclude wonderful 
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Kickle
A Dying Hope
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Re: The Buddha wasn't a Buddhist [Re: deff]
#12537525 - 05/10/10 05:00 PM (3 years, 12 days ago) |
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true, my bad 
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