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 Enmos
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 Identifying mushrooms - Methods 
#12481884 - 04/30/10 05:43 AM (3 years, 23 days ago) |
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Ok, so I have to demolish the mushrooms in order to identify them, or have them identified?
Is there absolutely no other way?
I am an amateur photographer and in autumn I switch from insects to mushrooms. I like to leave the mushrooms I find intact, as I just want to take their picture. I do want to identify them if at all possible, so what should I do?
I have some books that I sometimes use, but mostly I use the internet to ID them. However, this way, my folder of unidentifiable mushrooms keeps growing.
Any help?
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 German Kahuna
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 Re: Identifying mushrooms - Methods [Re: Enmos]
#12481928 - 04/30/10 06:28 AM (3 years, 23 days ago) |
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Well, you are doing no harm picking them. You can take in situ pics and then carefully remove them from their substrate to take pictures of gills and other details. The "mushroom" is just the fruit body, the actual organism is growing inside the substrate. Just like you don't harm the tree when you pick an apple, picking mushrooms doesn't harm the organism the least bit.
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"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".
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CureCat
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Some people carry a mirror and use that to photograph the underside, but I find that mostly frustrating, as it never shows the gills/pores/etc as well as a simple, clear shot.
Furthermore, a mirror will not help with seeing the stem base, which is often an important identifying feature which is usually buried in the substrate.
It is pretty standard to pick the mushrooms you photograph, and in my experience, only photographers (as opposed to mushroomers who happen to also be into photography) seem to have an issue with picking mushrooms. I guess it seems like pulling out a flower to get a photo, maybe. Even though that is completely different, because that would actually kill the plant.
I'd say there is no way around picking mushrooms you photograph if you want an ID most of the time. Some are easy to ID and don't require a detailed shot, but most do.
Also, you should post photos here as well as on www.MushroomObserver.org for ID's!
Please note that posting observations without photos of the hymenium (fertile surface, i.e. gills, pores, teeth) may lead to complaints about lack of identifiable features.
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Enmos
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Quote:
German Kahuna said:
Well, you are doing no harm picking them. You can take in situ pics and then carefully remove them from their substrate to take pictures of gills and other details. The "mushroom" is just the fruit body, the actual organism is growing inside the substrate. Just like you don't harm the tree when you pick an apple, picking mushrooms doesn't harm the organism the least bit.
Well, the only way to remove without damaging the organism them is by cutting them off with a knife just above the mycelium.
I have an issue with picking mushrooms even if it's done carefully. You are hampering the organisms growth, because you're taking away the fruiting body that is supposed to spread it's seeds.
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Enmos
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Re: Identifying mushrooms - Methods [Re: CureCat]
#12482007 - 04/30/10 07:22 AM (3 years, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
CureCat said:I guess it seems like pulling out a flower to get a photo, maybe. Even though that is completely different, because that would actually kill the plant.
Actually, it's exactly like pulling out a flower. It won't kill the plant at all (unless you are pulling the plant out with it).
I try to minimize the damage I do to nature when I'm photographing it.
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German Kahuna
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Re: Identifying mushrooms - Methods [Re: Enmos]
#12482045 - 04/30/10 07:52 AM (3 years, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enmos said:
Quote:
German Kahuna said:
Well, you are doing no harm picking them. You can take in situ pics and then carefully remove them from their substrate to take pictures of gills and other details. The "mushroom" is just the fruit body, the actual organism is growing inside the substrate. Just like you don't harm the tree when you pick an apple, picking mushrooms doesn't harm the organism the least bit.
Well, the only way to remove without damaging the organism them is by cutting them off with a knife just above the mycelium.
I have an issue with picking mushrooms even if it's done carefully. You are hampering the organisms growth, because you're taking away the fruiting body that is supposed to spread it's seeds.
You have a very romantic environmentalist perception of how this works. Nevertheless, it is a false one.
Believe me, you are doing no harm. To the very contrary. Once the cap opens it will start dropping spores. By the time you remove the mushroom fruit body from its substrate it will already have released spores by the millions. You are actually helping the organism spread its seed, because you are carrying the fruit body away to new locations while it keeps sporulating all the time. As a matter of fact, mushroom hunters are usually covered in all kinds of spores from head to toe, taking them where ever they go.
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"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".
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German Kahuna
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Re: Identifying mushrooms - Methods [Re: Enmos]
#12482048 - 04/30/10 07:55 AM (3 years, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enmos said:
Quote:
CureCat said:I guess it seems like pulling out a flower to get a photo, maybe. Even though that is completely different, because that would actually kill the plant.
Actually, it's exactly like pulling out a flower.
You are wrong. Period.
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"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".
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Enmos
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Quote:
German Kahuna said:
Quote:
Enmos said:
Quote:
CureCat said:I guess it seems like pulling out a flower to get a photo, maybe. Even though that is completely different, because that would actually kill the plant.
Actually, it's exactly like pulling out a flower.
You are wrong. Period.
Explain please.
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Enmos
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Quote:
German Kahuna said:You have a very romantic environmentalist perception of how this works. Nevertheless, it is a false one.
Believe me, you are doing no harm. To the very contrary. Once the cap opens it will start dropping spores. By the time you remove the mushroom fruit body from its substrate it will already have released spores by the millions. You are actually helping the organism spread its seed, because you are carrying the fruit body away to new locations while it keeps sporulating all the time. As a matter of fact, mushroom hunters are usually covered in all kinds of spores from head to toe, taking them where ever they go.
Alright, I can accept that. But still, I would not damage it. I rather let nature run it's course, and intervene as little as possible.
Anyway, I guess that prevents me from making an ID in some cases.
Edited by Enmos (04/30/10 08:02 AM)
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German Kahuna
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Re: Identifying mushrooms - Methods [Re: Enmos]
#12482161 - 04/30/10 08:51 AM (3 years, 23 days ago) |
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Well, if your pictures are good quality in many cases an experienced mycologist will at least be able to name the genus if not even the species. Of course some are impossible to identify without looking at various details. Some even can't be identified by looking at macroscopic features alone but need microscopy.
Maybe you could post a few of your images and we can see for ourselves whether we can ID some of them.
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"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".
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psycho4ctive
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Registered: 05/22/09
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Quote:
German Kahuna said:
Quote:
Enmos said:
Quote:
German Kahuna said:
Well, you are doing no harm picking them. You can take in situ pics and then carefully remove them from their substrate to take pictures of gills and other details. The "mushroom" is just the fruit body, the actual organism is growing inside the substrate. Just like you don't harm the tree when you pick an apple, picking mushrooms doesn't harm the organism the least bit.
Well, the only way to remove without damaging the organism them is by cutting them off with a knife just above the mycelium.
I have an issue with picking mushrooms even if it's done carefully. You are hampering the organisms growth, because you're taking away the fruiting body that is supposed to spread it's seeds.
You have a very romantic environmentalist perception of how this works. Nevertheless, it is a false one.
Believe me, you are doing no harm. To the very contrary. Once the cap opens it will start dropping spores. By the time you remove the mushroom fruit body from its substrate it will already have released spores by the millions. You are actually helping the organism spread its seed, because you are carrying the fruit body away to new locations while it keeps sporulating all the time. As a matter of fact, mushroom hunters are usually covered in all kinds of spores from head to toe, taking them where ever they go.
Gotta love Kahuna on here 
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To fathom hell or soar angelic, just take a pinch of psychedelic
Psilocybe subaeruginosa experiences: 2.7 grams dry at music festivals.
10.5 grams dry at home (complete ego death). Next stage: 15 grams dry at home. 
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German Kahuna
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Posts: 15,798
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Re: Identifying mushrooms - Methods [Re: psycho4ctive]
#12482413 - 04/30/10 10:46 AM (3 years, 23 days ago) |
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Thanks. 
It's true though, we are the bees of the woods.
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"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".
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CureCat
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Re: Identifying mushrooms - Methods [Re: Enmos]
#12484786 - 04/30/10 07:15 PM (3 years, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enmos said:
Well, the only way to remove without damaging the organism them is by cutting them off with a knife just above the mycelium.
Using a knife can be bad for one of the reasons I mentioned above- the base of the stem is some times an important identifying feature, for example, with some species of Amanita, Cortinarius, Chlorophyllum, Volvariella, Xerula, etc.. So cutting the stem off where it meets the ground or substrate can often remove some of the most distinguishing features.
Quote:
Enmos said:
Actually, it's exactly like pulling out a flower. It won't kill the plant at all (unless you are pulling the plant out with it).
I was referring to pulling out the plant, such as a flower. Sorry, I should have been specific. I meant it is not like pulling out the entire plant.
Quote:
Enmos said:
Anyway, I guess that prevents me from making an ID in some cases.
The short answer is "Yes. Yes, it does."
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Mr. Mushrooms
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Re: Identifying mushrooms - Methods [Re: CureCat]
#12486319 - 05/01/10 12:13 AM (3 years, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
CureCat said:
It is pretty standard to pick the mushrooms you photograph, and in my experience, only photographers (as opposed to mushroomers who happen to also be into photography) seem to have an issue with picking mushrooms. I guess it seems like pulling out a flower to get a photo, maybe. Even though that is completely different, because that would actually kill the plant.
It is, but it isn't always my habit. I carry a dental mirror with me to photograph the underside of mushrooms I can readily identify in the field. Mushrooms that are wood lovers nearly always have the base of the stem exposed. Terrestrial mushrooms are a different story. I'm not that "picky" about picking mushrooms but I never pick anything I'm not going to eat, study or store in the herbarium for two reasons: (1) I'm normally swimming in mushrooms at the height of the season and don't want or need anymore and (2) I don't disturb anything unnecessarily out of habit. Unless they are Honey mushrooms (as you know). Those I destroy for amusement. 
Envirofreaks: don't get your knickers in a twist. It's a joke.
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 Alan Rockefeller
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don't get your knickers in a twist. It's a joke.
Cool. You should really come out to california and kick mushrooms with us.
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Mr. Mushrooms
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:
don't get your knickers in a twist. It's a joke.
Cool. You should really come out to california and kick mushrooms with us.
Thanks Alan. I imagine that is inevitable. 
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Enmos
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Quote:
German Kahuna said:
Well, if your pictures are good quality in many cases an experienced mycologist will at least be able to name the genus if not even the species. Of course some are impossible to identify without looking at various details. Some even can't be identified by looking at macroscopic features alone but need microscopy.
Maybe you could post a few of your images and we can see for ourselves whether we can ID some of them.
I already have posted some pictures
I guess I'll have to pay extra attention when photographing them. Maybe if there are a lot of the same species around I'll cut one in the future.
I didn't mention it before, but one of the reasons I don't like to pick mushrooms is that it's illegal here (although it's not the main reason).
Another question. Can I make a spore print by cutting a round hole in the middle of a piece of paper and then make a cut from the hole all the way to the edge of the paper, so that I can put the paper arounf the stem of the mushroom? Or does the mushroom have to be dried before it releases it's spores?
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Enmos
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Re: Identifying mushrooms - Methods [Re: CureCat]
#12487159 - 05/01/10 04:32 AM (3 years, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
CureCat said:
Using a knife can be bad for one of the reasons I mentioned above- the base of the stem is some times an important identifying feature, for example, with some species of Amanita, Cortinarius, Chlorophyllum, Volvariella, Xerula, etc.. So cutting the stem off where it meets the ground or substrate can often remove some of the most distinguishing features.
What if I clear away the leaf-litter etc. so the bulb is exposed?
Quote:
CureCat said:
I was referring to pulling out the plant, such as a flower. Sorry, I should have been specific. I meant it is not like pulling out the entire plant.
Ah, I see
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CureCat
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Re: Identifying mushrooms - Methods [Re: Enmos]
#12487299 - 05/01/10 06:08 AM (3 years, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
Mr. Mushrooms said:
Those I destroy for amusement.
I destroy lots of mushrooms for fun.
But I do not just go around smashing ever mushroom I find, I usually go for the really big, really mature ones. And I make a sport of it, really.
Quote:
Enmos said:
one of the reasons I don't like to pick mushrooms is that it's illegal here.
Illegal to pick and leave in its habitat, or illegal to pick, and collect, taking it out of the habitat??
Pretty sure that the laws in my state (CA) are that you just can't take the mushrooms out of the habitat in certain places.
Quote:
Enmos said:
Can I make a spore print by cutting a round hole in the middle of a piece of paper and then make a cut from the hole all the way to the edge of the paper, so that I can put the paper arounf the stem of the mushroom? Or does the mushroom have to be dried before it releases it's spores?
Yes, this should work except that in some cases the paper laying on the ground may be too far from the gills or pores (if the stem is long), and the spores may not drop neatly on the paper. Also, if it is rainy, the spores may wash away.
And totally dried out mushrooms do not actually drop spores, only fresh mushrooms do.
Quote:
Enmos said:
What if I clear away the leaf-litter etc. so the bulb is exposed?
In the instances I was referring to, the stem would usually be buried in soil, some times very deep... So you would have to dig around the base, but by that point, you've pretty much picked the mushroom, so I can't see why bother...
But try it out for yourself if you please.
But let me give you an example.
When I was sort of new to hunting, I couldn't manage to identify these at first because i was cutting the mushroom at what I thought was the base... Then one day I recognized a photo of this mushroom which had defied identification, but with a long taproot, aka pseudorhiza, and I realized I had been missing the most important feature for identification!
The mushroom is Caulorhiza umbonata, aka the "Redwood Rooter".
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Enmos
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Re: Identifying mushrooms - Methods [Re: CureCat]
#12487376 - 05/01/10 06:59 AM (3 years, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
CureCat said:Illegal to pick and leave in its habitat, or illegal to pick, and collect, taking it out of the habitat??
Pretty sure that the laws in my state (CA) are that you just can't take the mushrooms out of the habitat in certain places.
Illegal to pick at all. In most places it's even illegal to get off the forest path. You can get fined for it if they catch you.
Quote:
CureCat said:Yes, this should work except that in some cases the paper laying on the ground may be too far from the gills or pores (if the stem is long), and the spores may not drop neatly on the paper. Also, if it is rainy, the spores may wash away.
And totally dried out mushrooms do not actually drop spores, only fresh mushrooms do.
I'll have to try it out, I guess
Quote:
CureCat said:In the instances I was referring to, the stem would usually be buried in soil, some times very deep... So you would have to dig around the base, but by that point, you've pretty much picked the mushroom, so I can't see why bother...
But try it out for yourself if you please.
But let me give you an example.
When I was sort of new to hunting, I couldn't manage to identify these at first because i was cutting the mushroom at what I thought was the base... Then one day I recognized a photo of this mushroom which had defied identification, but with a long taproot, aka pseudorhiza, and I realized I had been missing the most important feature for identification!
The mushroom is Caulorhiza umbonata, aka the "Redwood Rooter".
Ah, I see. Thanks
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