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 Believe
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 Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users 
#12151213 - 03/05/10 09:14 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Greetings shroomers,
I am here to take a poll of you self-thinking individuals on what your personal belief is on religion. In this poll I would like it if you could pick if you believe there is a central "god" out there (Doesnt have to be the christian god)or if infact there is no overbearing "God" watching over us. This can include things like Buddhism, Atheism, Self-Spirituality, etc. As long as you dont believe in basic christian/monotheistic teachings.
Im just personally curious about religious belief differences between hallucinogenic drugs using individuals and those who dont. Your participation in this poll would be greatly appreciated so i can further myself in discovering what I believe to be reality.
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Seanfu
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 Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: Believe]
#12151272 - 03/05/10 09:28 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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dude, 99 percent of the people that post here aren't retarded, that is, they don't adhere to ancient sexest books that claim there to be a single loving and hating at the same time force that has an intense ego.
This makes no point. The one thing I rule out fror every member I see religiously is a monotheism/ judeo christian belief.
The only question here is are you atheist or are you theist.
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swimmingfast
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: Seanfu]
#12151472 - 03/05/10 10:02 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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I rather see people put their finances/man-hours in space exploration rather than spending it sitting in churches every Sunday. I believe in rationality and I don't need to embrace/believe in any god to help me with problems in life. Money, or physical labor sowing seeds, will get me food -- not a rain dance or prayer. These are my opinions and I do not harbor any prejudice towards religious people.
I'm guessing that you'll get your "non-psychedelic user beliefs" from somewhere outside this forum? Lol.
Interesting post, keep the cogs of mind expansion turning, get a lot of input, and you'll eventually find what is "true" in your own sense from the ideas of many, yourself, and perhaps the biofeedback from psychedelic drugs 
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All his life has he looked away... to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing. Hmph. Adventure. Heh. Excitement. Heh. A Jedi craves not these things.
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Odum
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: swimmingfast]
#12151540 - 03/05/10 10:15 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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its all just believe
maybe some collection of stars is a self-aware being that controls us like ants
who knows
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F1234K
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: Odum]
#12151680 - 03/05/10 10:49 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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For me taking these things prooves that all gods and regions and spirituality is simply created by the mind and not real. If taking a substance can bring on a religious spiritual type experience by altering brain receptors then its easy to see how made up all religion and spirituality is.
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ILoveThomYorke
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: F1234K]
#12151807 - 03/05/10 11:37 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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What you've got to remember though is that a lot of the New-Age 'religions' a lot of you hallucinogenic users prescribe to are really almost as bad. And I really mean that. Because whilst I have little respect for someone whos entire spiritual make-up is based on the church, I have even less respect for someone who spends £15 on a dream-catcher and buys semi-precious stones at £5-a-pop then thinks that all of a sudden makes them 'spiritual'. One who deceives themselves into thinking they've escaped the big-bad of the church and done something profoundly individual/alternative - when in actual fact they've stumbled one-half into a classic religion of identity, and one-half into the most capitalist/consumerist-friendly religion of all. I know no one is explicitly talking about Neopaganism, but that is what quite a few peoples 'self-spirituality' boils down to and it certainly seems to me to lack substance somewhat.
I really don't mean to seem rude, but I'm applying that to pretty much anyone on here who claims to be a 'Pagan' or a practitioner of Witchcraft. I'm not saying genuine spiritualists don't exist among you, but I am positive they're very few and very far in between. In all my time on this Earth I've never met a single self-proclaimed Pagan who was older than twenty and actually knew jack about spirituality or the human experience. In fact the vast majority of them were teenage girls at secondary school, so you understand my apprehension? I'll also say this; the people I've met MOST intolerant of the beliefs of others? All Christ-bashing Modern-day-'Pagans'. Just a bit of food for thought.
As for me? I'm as wretched as any of you; my religious beliefs - just like many of yours - are extremely consumerism friendly. They implore me to buy books, books and more books. All just cogs in a machine, numbers on a screen. Hard to keep the soul intact in this world. It all boils down to dollars and cents.
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TryptamineDream
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: ILoveThomYorke]
#12151854 - 03/05/10 11:53 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Previous poster makes a very good point.
I'd consider myself atheist. I don't look down on those who do practice a religion or spiritual belief. I am hesitant to hold organized religion in a wholly positive regard, but many who condemn organized religions like Christianity based on past bloodshed and violence don't see the flip side of the issue - that organized religion does a brilliant job of bringing members of a community together to do good things for others both within and without their community. Church-organized charity fundraisers, volunteer events, etc... and just generally bringing members of a community together on a regular basis in a positive, friendly context, helping community members who are going through difficult times, etc.
With that said, organized religion also has the capacity to initiate a mindless and dangerous "mob mentality" in its members, especially in those organizations which exist on the fringes, so-to-speak - extremist organizations (I'm thinking the Westboro Baptist Church for example.) More mainstream religious organizations, however, have an incredible capacity to inspire people to do good things - and they do. In short, organized religions aren't all that bad, and on the whole I'd say that at least in America, they have a net positive impact on communities.
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ILoveThomYorke
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: TryptamineDream]
#12151908 - 03/06/10 12:05 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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I read a point somewhere - perhaps even on here actually - that I really liked once; It was with regards to evangelism. The wise and anonymous scholar I'm quoting (And I'm quite sure it was a shroomite, now I think of it) basically said that although it is presumptuous to assume someone needs saving, and arrogant to assume they are the one with the capacity to save them, there is nothing malevolent or malicious about either.
I'm always really conscious of anti-Christian sentiment; it's amazing how it seems to find its surest ground among the most liberal people in society.
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Seanfu
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: ILoveThomYorke]
#12151992 - 03/06/10 12:26 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
ILoveThomYorke said:
I read a point somewhere - perhaps even on here actually - that I really liked once; It was with regards to evangelism. The wise and anonymous scholar I'm quoting (And I'm quite sure it was a shroomite, now I think of it) basically said that although it is presumptuous to assume someone needs saving, and arrogant to assume they are the one with the capacity to save them, there is nothing malevolent or malicious about either.
I'm always really conscious of anti-Christian sentiment; it's amazing how it seems to find its surest ground among the most liberal people in society.
Wouldn't say it if Christians weren't constantly self rietious and arrogant. And always claim that they are right. A Catholic will tell you a protestant is going to hell because they don't believe exactly as a Catholic and etc down the line.
If you don't confess you will go to hell, yet confession wasn't something that came into practice until medevil times when the churches wanted money from the serfs. They will say if you smoke weed or do psychs you'll go to hell as they smoke on their cigarettes and get wasted. And as psychedelic wine was used a a sacrament in biblical days.
And when you point these out they will call you a Jesus hater or will be especislly hostile. If this sort of behavior doesn't inspire anti Christianity then I don't know what does.
But I do agree that my first post was a little harsh and definitely uncalled for.
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TryptamineDream
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: ILoveThomYorke]
#12152010 - 03/06/10 12:33 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
ILoveThomYorke said:
I read a point somewhere - perhaps even on here actually - that I really liked once; It was with regards to evangelism. The wise and anonymous scholar I'm quoting (And I'm quite sure it was a shroomite, now I think of it) basically said that although it is presumptuous to assume someone needs saving, and arrogant to assume they are the one with the capacity to save them, there is nothing malevolent or malicious about either.
The "you must be saved!" rhetoric is benign at best and mildly obnoxious at worst, in my experience. I'd even hesitate to call it presumptuous; I mean, it is, but you have to remember that people who practice (Christian) evangelism honestly believe in what they're saying. They really believe that you're going to go to hell unless you are "saved" by believing in the Lord. They don't necessarily consider themselves your savior either; they are merely a messenger of God who, in their belief system, is the true savior of all believers. As far as they're concerned, they do have my best interests at heart. It's hard to get pissed at someone for that.
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ILoveThomYorke
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: Seanfu]
#12152024 - 03/06/10 12:39 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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I study Religion at a pretty Christian town in South East England, so I'm listening to and learning from Christian theologians at least a couple of days a week if not considerably more; On top of the universally Christian lecturers (I think I'll have one non-Christian for Asian Philosophy next year) almost the entire class is Christian. Whilst I've found them to be pretty pedantic and argumentative at times in our class discussions, that really is the absolute worst thing I could ever say about them. Theres one Catholic girl in the class in particular who may be one of the nicest people I've ever met. As a faith yes, it can be self-righteous and arrogant (But it sort of HAS to be, in the same way that pretty much all faiths can be perceived as being) but I really do think its on a congregational level; on an individual, one-to-one basis, I think the vast majority of Christians are lovely (but misguided  ) people. Certainly almost all of them I've met.
To me the trick of religious difference is encountering all people as 'just' people, in the thick of their own existences; if you start identifying them with their institutional allegiances first and their individual character second you'll quickly find yourself led astray.
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islanduniverse
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: ILoveThomYorke]
#12152059 - 03/06/10 12:49 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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many religions' gods are claimed to be the one and only. it seems to be a significant issue to cogitate.
if we can't understand that logic, we are all fucked.
Edited by islanduniverse (03/06/10 12:51 AM)
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Believe
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: islanduniverse]
#12152322 - 03/06/10 04:19 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thanks for the overwhelming responses. I'm personally an athiest. I've been an athiest for many years. Although i spent some time going to catholic schools for elementry and middle school back in the day, it did nothing but open my eyes to how ridiculous the belief is all together. I have read multiple books on athiesm and the non-existence of God and I personally couldn't see myself any other way. It seems the overall logical conclusion that there really is no "God" and he was created by those searching for power and control of the people. I have yet to see anything that can prove the existence of a God, so i call bulshit.
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EyelessVagabond
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: Believe]
#12152364 - 03/06/10 05:03 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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With only those two options I can't really answer your poll. I believe in emergent consciousness; as someone joked up above maybe some collection of stars is consciousness or even the whole universe at some level? I don't even know if I'd classify this as God though and surely wouldn't say it has an all powerful influence; still bound by known physical laws and such.
I believe in the possibility of a universal sort of intelligence, though doubt it cares about humanity as a whole. I equate it to a person caring when a neuron dies in their brain. Still plenty left and overall intellect stays intact.
So am I monotheistic or ashiest? I'll likely change my mind within a couple months so why's it matter.
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Do what you will, this world's a fiction
And is made up of contradiction
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 Shad0w
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: EyelessVagabond]
#12152472 - 03/06/10 06:14 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
EyelessVagabond said:
With only those two options I can't really answer your poll. I believe in emergent consciousness; as someone joked up above maybe some collection of stars is consciousness or even the whole universe at some level? I don't even know if I'd classify this as God though and surely wouldn't say it has an all powerful influence; still bound by known physical laws and such.
I believe in the possibility of a universal sort of intelligence, though doubt it cares about humanity as a whole. I equate it to a person caring when a neuron dies in their brain. Still plenty left and overall intellect stays intact.
So am I monotheistic or ashiest? I'll likely change my mind within a couple months so why's it matter.
I voted for Jehovah and His Son Jesus. 
It was either that, or vote for being a close-minded hippy. 
I actually dis-like the poll questions, I feel it has a biased slant against a SPECIFIC monotheistic religion. Why?
The answer to that is probably more revealing than anything that could be gained from finding out what drugged out forum junkies think about it.
Why not Islam? Are we sure Budhhism isnt monotheistic.
"we are all one and One is Divinity" Something like that?
How come "self-spiritual" and atheist people get the same footing......
Now, I believe in G-d. But, dont even think for a minute that you know what that means.
Put simply, You dont know me homies, and there is either: One Judge , or... no judge.
( slowly draws his pistols casually from his waistband )
And we can play that game anyway you want to...... I am not that particular.
* end scene * 
And even tho. I believe in a higher power than the human self.......
Doesnt mean I am not critical at all.
In fact, My strictly skeptical side, which will freely and happily allow the non-existence of anything supernatural, I am actually slightly disturbed that, "self-spiritual" folks get to be checked in the same catagory as an open minded yet skeptical nontheistic person who relies on the scientific method to divine truth from the universe.
I demand you give up your boxed in thinking and open your mind to the newer possibility that an atheist and a self spiritual person are not always on mutal footing against the major monotheistic religions, and specifically christianity.
There is no magic in the mushroom.........
It is a chemical.
A chemical that has evolved, just like everything else in the universe. A chemical that has a distinct and profound effect on the human brain. It is hard not to believe in magic when tripping..... Earth shattering, in the sense that up until now, you thought the world was everything you already thought it was, and now you know that it isnt.
So, while I dont believe in magic myself....... I do understand why someone would think it is , and have no problem using the term to express an idea.
And , really, it is magical. Pure unadulterated energy of the universe and begining of time, propelling life forward in a frantic race to escape death....................
Even agriculture wasnt a realistic social option , until the sun gods came along.
Anyway....... I am too high, and dont remember if I had a 'point' or not.
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Nothing I write on Shroomery's message boards or in private messages are true. I am fucking crazy and I make all this shit up because I can.
[quote]sploogepanz55 said:
^^^ haha what a bummer, shad0w. All this talk about dying.
[/quote]
[quote]psychoanomaly said:
And so, I feel your intolerance and phobia towards rectal administration of psychedelics is a violation of the music of the spheres  [/quote]
[quote]shroom_sandwich said:
I could have sworn I seen a thread about a guy saying his dog killed the neighbors chickens earlier....[/quote]
Edited by Shad0w (03/06/10 06:17 AM)
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curenado
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: Shad0w]
#12152494 - 03/06/10 06:24 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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I was a little unsure about how to respond. I may think there is a overlooking unity of it all ultimately, but it's a lot larger than our religious concepts. Way bigger.
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ZenClarity
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: Believe]
#12152759 - 03/06/10 07:55 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Believe said:
Thanks for the overwhelming responses. I'm personally an athiest. I've been an athiest for many years. Although i spent some time going to catholic schools for elementry and middle school back in the day, it did nothing but open my eyes to how ridiculous the belief is all together. I have read multiple books on athiesm and the non-existence of God and I personally couldn't see myself any other way. It seems the overall logical conclusion that there really is no "God" and he was created by those searching for power and control of the people. I have yet to see anything that can prove the existence of a God, so i call bulshit.
Just because there is no proof of something existing, does not mean
it has been disproved. IMO Claiming something doesn't exist is just
as absurd as claiming something does. Who really knows... And
of course there are different views of god that don't separate
ourselves from him/her/it.
Not that I'm for any organized religion mind you...
And I guess you may define atheist in more of a spiritual way than
I do... I just see religion as one extreme and atheist as the other.
Edited by ZenClarity (03/06/10 08:01 AM)
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ILoveThomYorke
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: ZenClarity]
#12153660 - 03/06/10 11:35 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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My personal interests lie with pantheisms as I'm sure would be the case with many shroomites here, but that is not to say I dismiss the value of Western monotheisms even if I myself do not subscribe to them. I just find the notion of an anthropomorphic father figure who lives in the sky a little bit silly. 
But I respect the faith and its followers and certainly understand what they're trying to do. Faith is all about centering yourself, giving yourself the most agreeable perception for a happy, contented or 'good' life. Some people can't establish that without someone looking over their shoulder and a side order of shame. Some can. But the end result is pretty much the same.
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: ILoveThomYorke]
#12153715 - 03/06/10 11:49 AM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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I can agree on what you're saying to some extent. Some christians
I know live very much by it.. and it seems to make them better people.
And of course things will go as they will, forcing change just
makes things worse.. in most cases.
But are you saying that organized religions are a necessity for
humanity? That we'll never do away with the separation that spawns
from it? As individuals I can see it working but as a whole, I can
only see it as a failure...
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Believe
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Re: Monotheistic/Christian beliefs vs Athiest/Self-Spirituality beliefs in hallucinogenic drug users [Re: ZenClarity]
#12155340 - 03/06/10 05:21 PM (2 years, 2 months ago) |
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In debate, the burden of proof is on those who are claiming the statement to be true. So athiests really have nothing to prove, although they have science to back them a lot of the way. And the only proof christians REALLY have is personal (objective) experiences and a book written by people who didnt even exist until 100's of years after the events that might have occured. It's easy to point to a book and say its "proof". But there are no other written accounts of the time period of jesus to confirm anything that the bible has to say. Don't you think if he was curing people and bringing people back from the dead it would be in more first-hand accounts?
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Edited by Believe (03/06/10 05:25 PM)
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