|
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
|
snoot
look alive ∞
Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 9,641
Loc: 45º parallel
Last seen: 8 days, 17 hours
|
alkaloid production post veil breakage
#11808171 - 01/11/10 01:33 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
I remember reading somewhere, that once the veil breaks on psilocybe mushrooms, that production of its precious psychedelic alkaloids cease, and the production of spores takes over. Anyone have any thoughts about this? I cant remember where I read it, but I remember thinking, this would explain why some people claim that aborts and other lil mushrooms end up being so damn potent, maybe this is just a giant misconception of something else I'm not sure.,
So when does production of alkaloids begin? When do spores begin to be produced? Do they stock pile before the fruit is developed?, like opiates pre pod in poppies, fungus may act completely differently but I guess I'm just curious. Does the Veil signify anything? Any stage in the fruit's life that means anything?
Any good information on this topic would be wonderfull, as I cannot seem to find the article I remember reading. It sounds kinda crazy but honestly I dont think it would be to far fetched of an idea, maybe they dont cease alkaloid production entirely but I could see if ceasing a bit to maximize spore production.
--------------------
∞ I am incapable of conceiving infinity, and yet I do not accept finity. - Simone de Beauvoir -
|
linkin17222
Stranger
Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 266
Last seen: 5 years, 27 days
|
Re: alkaloid production post veil breakage [Re: snoot]
#11808237 - 01/11/10 01:41 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
I'm pretty sure everything you've stated is true.
Production of alkaloids begin when the mushroom begins fruiting, that's why aborts are so potent.
|
bardleyrichard
My Keyboard Got Damaged
Registered: 02/12/09
Posts: 1,904
Loc: Ohio
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
|
Re: alkaloid production post veil breakage [Re: linkin17222]
#11808287 - 01/11/10 01:48 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
I think you're right, but I also think that it would be pretty damn hard to prove it in any quantitative way.
-------------------- I find myself yearning for clouds returning, all that the rain promises, and more...
|
Grumpyorc
Ghost
Registered: 09/14/09
Posts: 2,041
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
|
Re: alkaloid production post veil breakage [Re: bardleyrichard]
#11808378 - 01/11/10 01:58 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
i used to pick em as the veil broke now I let them open all the way because i think it looks neat and i'v never ever noticed any difference in potency. Your growth parameters and genetic have so much more to do with it I think that it's a moot point.
--------------------
|
RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
|
Re: alkaloid production post veil breakage [Re: Grumpyorc]
#11808898 - 01/11/10 03:16 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
For maximum potency, pick at the large pin size before the veil even starts to tear. In addition, they won't taste nearly so nasty if you're not eating all those spores. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
|
grrr31
Stranger
Registered: 02/04/09
Posts: 114
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
|
Re: alkaloid production post veil breakage [Re: RogerRabbit]
#11809070 - 01/11/10 03:41 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Followed this advice with PE and Ban Than. With the PE, the first flush were picked tiny. Second flush, waited till after opened, and they continued to grow, with no apparent potency loss (and no spores either). So, are the PE different, by virtue of their unique spore production traits?
|
snoot
look alive ∞
Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 9,641
Loc: 45º parallel
Last seen: 8 days, 17 hours
|
Re: alkaloid production post veil breakage [Re: RogerRabbit]
#11811898 - 01/11/10 10:36 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: For maximum potency, pick at the large pin size before the veil even starts to tear. In addition, they won't taste nearly so nasty if you're not eating all those spores. RR
but is the science true tho? Does production cease or slow done of alkaloids to benefit the production of spores?
--------------------
∞ I am incapable of conceiving infinity, and yet I do not accept finity. - Simone de Beauvoir -
|
RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
|
Re: alkaloid production post veil breakage [Re: snoot]
#11813677 - 01/12/10 09:14 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
No, the science is not valid. If you let the fruit stretch all the way out, it's just engorging with water. If you want most potency per gram of dry product, pick as a large pin before the cap opens. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
|
Deadzygote6
Total Badass
Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 108
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
|
Re: alkaloid production post veil breakage [Re: RogerRabbit]
#11813707 - 01/12/10 09:21 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Hmmm very interesting ill keep that in mind
|
snoot
look alive ∞
Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 9,641
Loc: 45º parallel
Last seen: 8 days, 17 hours
|
Re: alkaloid production post veil breakage [Re: RogerRabbit]
#11814181 - 01/12/10 10:53 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: No, the science is not valid. If you let the fruit stretch all the way out, it's just engorging with water. If you want most potency per gram of dry product, pick as a large pin before the cap opens. RR
So it does keep producing alkaloids threwout its adulthood, so as it engorges in water, it should be building more alkaloids, so one would think as it grows, itll keep getting more and more potent.
I'm just trying to understand.
--------------------
∞ I am incapable of conceiving infinity, and yet I do not accept finity. - Simone de Beauvoir -
|
13shrooms
Lightning Shaman
Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 26,719
Loc: IN ETHERS TORSION FIELD
|
Re: alkaloid production post veil breakage [Re: snoot]
#11814468 - 01/12/10 11:59 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
snoot said:
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: No, the science is not valid. If you let the fruit stretch all the way out, it's just engorging with water. If you want most potency per gram of dry product, pick as a large pin before the cap opens. RR
So it does keep producing alkaloids threwout its adulthood, so as it engorges in water, it should be building more alkaloids, so one would think as it grows, itll keep getting more and more potent.
I'm just trying to understand.
no, its being diluted not getting more potent.
-------------------- A M U Click here ^ for the AMU forum VVV AMUs Free Active/Edible/Exotic Spore Print or Syringe or Edible Culture Trade Thread VVV "Man is the sex organ of the machine world" ~ Marshall McLuhan
|
snoot
look alive ∞
Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 9,641
Loc: 45º parallel
Last seen: 8 days, 17 hours
|
Re: alkaloid production post veil breakage [Re: 13shrooms]
#11814486 - 01/12/10 12:03 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
13shrooms said:
Quote:
snoot said:
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: No, the science is not valid. If you let the fruit stretch all the way out, it's just engorging with water. If you want most potency per gram of dry product, pick as a large pin before the cap opens. RR
So it does keep producing alkaloids threwout its adulthood, so as it engorges in water, it should be building more alkaloids, so one would think as it grows, itll keep getting more and more potent.
I'm just trying to understand.
no, its being diluted not getting more potent.
so that goes with saying its not producing anymore then eh?
--------------------
∞ I am incapable of conceiving infinity, and yet I do not accept finity. - Simone de Beauvoir -
|
pblcenmy1
str8 noob
Registered: 11/24/09
Posts: 221
Loc: Colo. Rockies
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
|
Re: alkaloid production post veil breakage [Re: 13shrooms]
#11814510 - 01/12/10 12:08 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
I just read a 7 year old thread about this same subject, which sadly, ended with alot of folks yelling at eachother. I didnt learn much from it except that Science proves enough about fungi only to put them into a classification. All the rest is theory from experience which has just been posted and reiterated by two of the best.
-------------------- ~LoveLife~ Down 2 Earth, Up N Space!
|
13shrooms
Lightning Shaman
Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 26,719
Loc: IN ETHERS TORSION FIELD
|
Re: alkaloid production post veil breakage [Re: snoot]
#11814526 - 01/12/10 12:13 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
snoot said:
Quote:
13shrooms said:
Quote:
snoot said:
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: No, the science is not valid. If you let the fruit stretch all the way out, it's just engorging with water. If you want most potency per gram of dry product, pick as a large pin before the cap opens. RR
So it does keep producing alkaloids threwout its adulthood, so as it engorges in water, it should be building more alkaloids, so one would think as it grows, itll keep getting more and more potent.
I'm just trying to understand.
no, its being diluted not getting more potent.
so that goes with saying its not producing anymore then eh?
it may produce some more actives but not enough to have a high potency gram for gram because of the amount water diluting it.
-------------------- A M U Click here ^ for the AMU forum VVV AMUs Free Active/Edible/Exotic Spore Print or Syringe or Edible Culture Trade Thread VVV "Man is the sex organ of the machine world" ~ Marshall McLuhan
|
RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
|
Re: alkaloid production post veil breakage [Re: 13shrooms]
#11814653 - 01/12/10 12:36 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Once the pin is fully formed, cell division stops, meaning no more cells are produced. What happens is the existing cells expand/stretch as they engorge with water. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
|
snoot
look alive ∞
Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 9,641
Loc: 45º parallel
Last seen: 8 days, 17 hours
|
Re: alkaloid production post veil breakage [Re: RogerRabbit]
#11814754 - 01/12/10 12:55 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Once the pin is fully formed, cell division stops, meaning no more cells are produced. What happens is the existing cells expand/stretch as they engorge with water. RR
so then the theory is correct ? or am I misinterpreting this?
--------------------
∞ I am incapable of conceiving infinity, and yet I do not accept finity. - Simone de Beauvoir -
|
13shrooms
Lightning Shaman
Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 26,719
Loc: IN ETHERS TORSION FIELD
|
Re: alkaloid production post veil breakage [Re: snoot]
#11814929 - 01/12/10 01:29 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Once the pin is fully formed, cell division stops, meaning no more cells are produced. What happens is the existing cells expand/stretch as they engorge with water. RR
I tried explaining this to some other shroomerites but they know better (think they do at least).
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11425060#11425060
Quote:
snoot said:
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Once the pin is fully formed, cell division stops, meaning no more cells are produced. What happens is the existing cells expand/stretch as they engorge with water. RR
so then the theory is correct ? or am I misinterpreting this?
Im not sure what theory your using here. ? .
water weight does NOT mean more actives just diluted actives of similer amounts in bigger mushies.
-------------------- A M U Click here ^ for the AMU forum VVV AMUs Free Active/Edible/Exotic Spore Print or Syringe or Edible Culture Trade Thread VVV "Man is the sex organ of the machine world" ~ Marshall McLuhan
|
snoot
look alive ∞
Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 9,641
Loc: 45º parallel
Last seen: 8 days, 17 hours
|
Re: alkaloid production post veil breakage [Re: 13shrooms]
#11814954 - 01/12/10 01:32 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
13shrooms said:
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Once the pin is fully formed, cell division stops, meaning no more cells are produced. What happens is the existing cells expand/stretch as they engorge with water. RR
I tried explaining this to some other shroomerites but they (think) know better.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11425060#11425060
Quote:
snoot said:
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Once the pin is fully formed, cell division stops, meaning no more cells are produced. What happens is the existing cells expand/stretch as they engorge with water. RR
so then the theory is correct ? or am I misinterpreting this?
Im not sure what theory your using here. ? .
water weight does NOT mean more actives just diluted actives of similer amounts in bigger mushies.
right the theory being; at the point that the veil breaks, the fruit typically will cease or slowdown the production of its delicious psychedelic alkaloids, either to concentrate on generating spores, or for some other reasons. If it cease all cell production, then the theory is for the most part correct in that it stops production of its alkaloids around the time its pin is formed. Meaning that in theory the younger lil guys should be equally as potent, not gram for gram obv. I know when I've eaten lil pins the trip always seemed to be intense, only when my intentions of eating only a little were still met.
--------------------
∞ I am incapable of conceiving infinity, and yet I do not accept finity. - Simone de Beauvoir -
|
13shrooms
Lightning Shaman
Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 26,719
Loc: IN ETHERS TORSION FIELD
|
Re: alkaloid production post veil breakage [Re: snoot]
#11815020 - 01/12/10 01:39 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
I had .5g of dried Dancing Tiger aborts that were so strong they intimidated me from dosing again for quite some time but all is good now.
I have not had an intense experience like that since nor from fully mature mushies ever (unless I eat like 14g+).
-------------------- A M U Click here ^ for the AMU forum VVV AMUs Free Active/Edible/Exotic Spore Print or Syringe or Edible Culture Trade Thread VVV "Man is the sex organ of the machine world" ~ Marshall McLuhan
|
Pinback
Stranger
Registered: 07/20/02
Posts: 836
Loc: Europe
|
Re: alkaloid production post veil breakage [Re: 13shrooms]
#11815154 - 01/12/10 01:54 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
As I wrote here: If you plot the data at http://www.shroomery.org/8700/Psilocybe-azurescens-taxonomy-paper, you can see that, for P. azurescens, the smaller mushrooms are more potent (contains a higher concentration of psilocybin and psilocin) - however, the larger mushrooms contain more of psilocybin and psilocin in total. A reasonable conclusion would be that the mushrooms produce alkaloids at a high rate initially, and continues to produce alkaloids while they grow, but at a lower rate. So if you want more alkaloids, you should allow the mushrooms to grow big. If you want potent mushrooms, you should pick them early.
I doubt it has anything to do with the velum.
|
|