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OfflineRoseM
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The Potency Project * 2
    #11784347 - 01/07/10 03:24 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

A recent discussion in the pinned Strain Thread has compelled me to post.

It seems the vast majority of people who have tried Penis Envy think it is more potent than the average cube. I would like to see this rumor proven either true or false.

I am also curious as to the potency of 'Average' cubes.

Finally, I would like to know more about the potency of 'Below Average' cubes (B+ comes to mind, since there are many reports of less-than-stellar, low potency, or "Bunk" B+ flushes).

It seems that multiple MS grows (of each 'Strain' in question) will have to be tested (both through measured extraction and double blind taste tests).

I am curious to see what y'all can come up with to finally get to the bottom of these famed cube potency rumors.

Finally, I am moving this discussion into this forum and out of the Strain Thread so more people have a chance to see it. Only a handful of Trusted Cultivators participate in Strain Thread discussion. Mods, please don't lock this thread. I wouldn't start a Strain discussion in this Forum if I didn't feel warranted its own thread.


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Fiddlesticks.


Edited by Rose (01/07/10 04:30 PM)

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Invisibletrampis
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Re: Potency Project [Re: Rose]
    #11784379 - 01/07/10 03:30 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Certainly a great question, but is the answer just an opinion? How would one go about measuring such a thing aside from ingesting and comparing? I have had some intense thoughts on pe, but pe mixed with koh samoui was intense visually as well.


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OfflineKanker
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Re: Potency Project [Re: Rose]
    #11784397 - 01/07/10 03:33 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

i'm not sure how a double blind taste test would work, seeing as you can't take both at once, personal tripping is not quantitative, and tolerance would stop you from testing the alternative cubes for a week or so.
Personally, it would make more sense to just measure avg active chemical extracted.


--------------------
I'm ahead, I'm advanced
I am the first mammal to make plans, yeah
I crawled the earth, but now I'm higher
2010, watch it go to fire.
It's evolution baby.
-Pearl Jam

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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Potency Project [Re: trampis]
    #11784399 - 01/07/10 03:33 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

For starters we could extract and measure the average psilocybin yield from PE grows. See if it is different from the average cube.

Perhaps it is not psilocybin that gives PE its perceived potency... in which case, more testing will be needed. But extracts would be a good place to start.


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Fiddlesticks.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Potency Project [Re: Kanker]
    #11784413 - 01/07/10 03:35 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Kanker said:
i'm not sure how a double blind taste test would work, seeing as you can't take both at once, personal tripping is not quantitative, and tolerance would stop you from testing the alternative cubes for a week or so.
Personally, it would make more sense to just measure avg active chemical extracted.




Of course you are correct. Blind taste tests would just add evidence or kill the rumors of PE's famed potency, but taste tests alone would not provide a smoking gun.


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Fiddlesticks.


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Invisibletrampis
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Re: Potency Project [Re: Rose]
    #11784418 - 01/07/10 03:35 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

interesting, how would you test that?


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Potency Project [Re: trampis]
    #11784427 - 01/07/10 03:37 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

trampis said:
interesting, how would you test that?




That's why I started this thread, I too am curious to see what kind of testing can be done. Opening the project up to this community is a good place to start brainstorming. I imagine we'll get some good ideas soon enough.


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Fiddlesticks.


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OfflineNoOneKnowsHowToAct
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Re: Potency Project [Re: trampis]
    #11784452 - 01/07/10 03:40 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

If someone could figure out a way to extract psilocybin and psilocin such that the extract's purity does not vary and such that it is "easily" performed then this could be done. People measuring how potent a mushrooms is from a trip report is not quantitative enough to draw conclusions of any kind.

The extract does not need to be consumable but only measurable. I'd be willing to sacrifice flushes for testing this.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Potency Project [Re: NoOneKnowsHowToAct]
    #11784480 - 01/07/10 03:45 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I agree, extraction is the first step...

However, we can't yet be sure that psilocybin and psilocin are the only substances which make PE special (if it indeed IS special).

Don't sacrifice any flushes just yet (but thank you for the offer). Let's wait until we have a simple and common testing system in place. One which multiple testers can easily use.


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Fiddlesticks.


Edited by Rose (01/07/10 04:37 PM)

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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Potency Project [Re: NoOneKnowsHowToAct]
    #11784487 - 01/07/10 03:46 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

People measuring how potent a mushrooms is from a trip report is not quantitative enough to draw conclusions of any kind.




From "A" trip report, no. But from dozens or hundreds, from different people in different places that got equal amounts of extract, you'd see a pattern.
Large scale testing can show different patterns than you get with isolated tests. Answer different questions.

Shoot equal amounts of standardized extract (1mL = 1 gram) in to either orange juice or grape juice. Give the bottles to a friend to take to the party.
Tomorrow, guess the dose or describe it.
Repeat that times 20+ growers and 4 or six friends each, and you start to get some data.


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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?

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OfflineCzo
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Re: Potency Project [Re: Doc_T]
    #11784524 - 01/07/10 03:53 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

The only way I've heard of measuring psilocybin or psilocin accurately is to do Chromatography. I think there were some details on the Advanced Mycology forum, but I'm not sure.


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OfflineNoOneKnowsHowToAct
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Re: Potency Project [Re: Doc_T]
    #11784540 - 01/07/10 03:56 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Don't sacrifice any flushes just yet (but thank you for the offer). Let's wait until we have a simple and common testing system in place. One which multiple testers can easily use.




Yeah, I was going to wait for a concrete method first of course.



Quote:

Doc_T said:
Quote:

People measuring how potent a mushrooms is from a trip report is not quantitative enough to draw conclusions of any kind.




From "A" trip report, no. But from dozens or hundreds, from different people in different places that got equal amounts of extract, you'd see a pattern.
Large scale testing can show different patterns than you get with isolated tests. Answer different questions.

Shoot equal amounts of standardized extract (1mL = 1 gram) in to either orange juice or grape juice. Give the bottles to a friend to take to the party.
Tomorrow, guess the dose or describe it.
Repeat that times 20+ growers and 4 or six friends each, and you start to get some data.




I still wouldn't trust the data. It'd have to be thousands of reports from the same batch to be of any anecdotal use at best.

I want a process where ideally I can put the final product on a scale. Again, it doesn't have to be consumable. In fact, chemists out there take note, you could even bind something to the psilocin to make it into another chemical that is more easily extractable/seperated from the rest of the matter, then extract that and measure it. I've been reading lots on extracting through the search engine in the past but never came across anything that seemed usable.

Figuring this out is key. Once done I would assume it would be possible to create a new "breed" that has higher potency. I would think it would be much like selective breeding with Marijuana.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Potency Project [Re: NoOneKnowsHowToAct]
    #11784562 - 01/07/10 04:00 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

That is the crux of the problem.

These active chemicals are illegal in most places, so to do a scientific and peer reviewed study may be a pipe dream.

We can however compile evidence... which may lead towards new discoveries.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Potency Project [Re: Rose]
    #11784616 - 01/07/10 04:09 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Well, extraction is easy enough. And given a large enough input sample, your yield will be measurable in macroscopic terms.
So if that's how you want to do it, grow out a kilo of PE, a kilo of 'just shrooms' and a kilo of bunk B+. Then  extract, dry, and weigh the magic.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Potency Project [Re: Doc_T]
    #11784625 - 01/07/10 04:10 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Yup... and repeat as many times as possible, with as many people as possible.


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OfflineNoOneKnowsHowToAct
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Re: Potency Project [Re: Doc_T]
    #11784638 - 01/07/10 04:12 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
Well, extraction is easy enough.




Is it? Simply "extracting" into ethyl alcohol would not suffice because the concentration differs. We need an extraction technique where the extracted product has a consistent concentration.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Potency Project [Re: NoOneKnowsHowToAct]
    #11784668 - 01/07/10 04:17 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Hmmm....

Depends on what we are all looking for.

As long as each person used the same extractor for their 3 samples... they'd probably show which is more or less potent, even if another person used a cleaner extraction method.

The most potent cubes should repeatedly extract the most lovin' no matter what type of ethyl is used.

However, we'd need to use identical methods to get more exacting results.


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Fiddlesticks.


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Offlinegrrr31
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Re: Potency Project [Re: Rose]
    #11784675 - 01/07/10 04:19 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Interesting, I just posted a similar question on the Psychedelic experience board under "potency vs. larger dose".  When people refer to potency, do they simply mean the  amount of psilocybin or psilocin, or is there a perceived qualitative difference in the experience?

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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Potency Project [Re: NoOneKnowsHowToAct]
    #11784677 - 01/07/10 04:19 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

NoOneKnowsHowToAct said:
Quote:

Doc_T said:
Well, extraction is easy enough.




Is it? Simply "extracting" into ethyl alcohol would not suffice because the concentration differs. We need an extraction technique where the extracted product has a consistent concentration.




Whaddaya mean? Extract a measured amount of dry material with ethanol, reduce to standard dilution. 20 grams into the extractor, 20 mL out. Easy-peasy.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Potency Project [Re: grrr31]
    #11784730 - 01/07/10 04:28 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

grrr31 said:
Interesting, I just posted a similar question on the Psychedelic experience board under "potency vs. larger dose".  When people refer to potency, do they simply mean the  amount of psilocybin or psilocin, or is there a perceived qualitative difference in the experience?




Both.

That said, potency is overrated if you grow your own... since you can just eat more. Potency matters most to people who purchase their magic.


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