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The Chronic

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 12,003
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Quote:
But I think about it sometimes, and try to consider the fact that I will die one day- and that is could be tomorrow even- and see how this effects me.
If there is no 'I' then who is this 'me' that is effected by death? Is 'I' affected? Are you 'I' or this 'me' character?
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Funny as it may sound, I think it is more the way I die that I fear, than the concept of dieing itself.
Who is this 'I'?
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Which just leads me to thinking I don't really believe my own philosophy and I fear death.
If you beleive in a philosophy it isn't true its just mental You have to realize it with your entire being by finding out what 'I' is
I'm only being so direct, not to be rude, but as your already obviously open to advaita/vedantic teachings then stop messing about & realize what the Sages realized by realizing what 'I' is
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Noteworthy
Sophyphile


Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 5,599
Last seen: 4 months, 19 hours
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Re: How does death make you feel? [Re: Lakefingers]
#11472121 - 11/17/09 07:22 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lakefingers said: Yes, some (many? almost all?) of us want to get out and do a lot while we're in this format called living human.
Others want to turn it away and prepare for a happy death.
I don't get the feeling that many people do. The feeling I get from most people is that they think they are meant to be living so that they can have a happy life or something like that. To me it is more about acheiving my goals and discovering what this life IS. But most people seem to delegate all questions to other people.. assume that experts are taking care of the world.. they think that their words are reality...
I like finding other souls that are living their life on the terms that they discover through introspection and self-acceptance. But most people are living 'a' life, one that has been moulded by their society. So many people value life just for being life... they fear danger everywhere.. they desire what is presented to them...
But life is xtreme!!!!
boundless!!
I have burning ambitions! I feel like a crazy person sometimes! because I can't see the point in life unless it involves reaching for the stars! I can't see the point in being normal. I don't see the point in belonging to any team except Team Me, and Team Humanity.
I do everything I do for myself but I have defined my ambitions by that which affects everybody else
My universe is full of concepts that I have no words for... I don't want to die before I can manifest them in other people.
I have death-of-my-legacy anxiety
these painkillers are wearing off too
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Grapefruit
Oblivious Fool



Registered: 05/09/08
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Re: How does death make you feel? [Re: Noteworthy]
#11472531 - 11/17/09 10:31 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Life and they experiences within it are very over rated by most IMO. It has it's moments for sure but overall it's not great, rather try and make myself happy regardless.
-------------------- I remember when I believed in meaning
Those days aside the hilltop where the sunlight sky and meadows below spoke promises of eternal future
And I remember the day the world turned on me, how frightened I was and the idiotic surprise I was met with
I should've known!
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,886
Loc: underbelly
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Funny as it may sound, I think it is more the way I die that I fear, than the concept of dieing itself. I don't want it to be sudden, brutal, or meaningless- and yet, according to my personal philosophy, death does not exist, so how could it have any characteristics and how could they apply to an 'I' that doesn't exist.
Which just leads me to thinking I don't really believe my own philosophy and I fear death.
Very good thinking imo. You have seen behind your own shields that attempt to convince you that you do not fear. I try to explain this process to people with little effect. It's when one really looks at their actions and thinking and really asks why do they find the fear often in the little things that may go unnoticed.
I think it is more the way I die that I fear
I agree. Actually instead of death anxiety, fear of dying anxiety might be more to the point, although the fear of nonexistence is also part of the mix.
Great post.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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shivas.wisdom
בּ וואלה




Registered: 02/20/09
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Re: How does death make you feel? [Re: The Chronic]
#11473011 - 11/17/09 12:45 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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@Chronic777 Hmmm. Well, the terms 'I' and 'me' would both refer to the mind-body complex of shivas.wisdom, but an extrinsically existing one. It is just simpler to use 'I' when speaking. I(...) believe I understand what you are saying though. It is one thing to understand a concept and another to fully accept it as truth. I think that is the reason I ponder death, to see my reaction and see if any truths have managed to sink in. But could it be that the question "try to consider the fact that I will die one day- and that is could be tomorrow even- and see how this effects me." is the wrong question to ask? As it dwells still on a concept of an intrinsicly existing 'I', and so the only possible reactions or answers will reflect on that?
@Icelander Yea, it is the shields of the self that are the hardest to see through. In fact, it could even be that this apparent break in the clouds of my mind is just another clever shield. It never ends, but I try not to fall into a cycle of endless doubt. 'fear of death anxiety'.. this was not my thought when I first wrote the op, but after reading it over and thinking about it, that is exactly what I was thinking. So is that a purely biological reaction, of avoidance of pain? Perhaps I will ponder death in an ideal circumstance- in my old age, surrounded by loved ones, at peace with the world and my life, and high on lsd, as I slowly drift off to sleep forever. Perhaps in this situation, my view will be different.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,886
Loc: underbelly
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So is that a purely biological reaction,
Good question. Without instinct would death enter the psyche?
Emotionally however early man noticed death. The feelings of attachment being so very poignant. Such confusion and sadness, loneliness too.
To experience life and realize that it is not to last is a very hard pill to swallow for a being that has an instinct that says survive, always. Add the emotions of loss and and you have a potent motivation to bury all that in the unconscious and find ways to convince oneself that it only happens to others or it will happen but certainly only at some future date.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Ahimsa


Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 1,790
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Death makes me feel like being in a place were the most insane thing is going to happen. It is amazingly frightening to contemplate self-erasure. Yet, i'm also very curious to know what it's going to be like and how far i can go down in death still aware to some point of the event itself... death makes me feel curious and scared at the same time...
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,886
Loc: underbelly
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Re: How does death make you feel? [Re: Ahimsa]
#11474225 - 11/17/09 04:21 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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“Death makes angels of us all and gives us wings where we had shoulders smooth as ravens claws.” -James Douglas Morrison
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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zombi
chillosopher



Registered: 09/13/09
Posts: 627
Loc: Boston area
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Re: How does death make you feel? [Re: Ahimsa]
#11474354 - 11/17/09 04:41 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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eager anticipation. I am not by any means in a hurry to die, but I am very intrigued to find out what is next. is there a next? I feel that my study of philosophy has had more to do with my arrival at this viewpoint than psychedelics have. they have undoubtedly been a catalyst for significant paradigm shifts (which I feel to be for the better) in my thought processes, but philosophy I feel may have had a larger impact in this instance.
specifically, I just finished reading Phaedo, in which Socrates and his close friends discuss death and the soul before his death. the arguments presented there did not convince me of the conclusions reached, but did help me look at things a bit differently. I am now that much closer to being able to say I really do believe in the immortality of the soul (self, spirit, etc.). I can't say that I do now, but it is an attractive proposition.
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To fear death, gentleman, is no other than to think oneself wise when one is not, to think one knows what one does not know
-------------------- My words, too, are only an echo; but there is no reason why I should not repeat what I have heard.
-Socrates Let the rabbits wear glasses!
 
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Grapefruit
Oblivious Fool



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Re: How does death make you feel? [Re: zombi]
#11474455 - 11/17/09 04:59 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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That's a stupid quote, the whole reason I have death anxiety is because I don't know whether my self will continue after death.
-------------------- I remember when I believed in meaning
Those days aside the hilltop where the sunlight sky and meadows below spoke promises of eternal future
And I remember the day the world turned on me, how frightened I was and the idiotic surprise I was met with
I should've known!
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shivas.wisdom
בּ וואלה




Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 5,931
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Re: How does death make you feel? [Re: Grapefruit]
#11474622 - 11/17/09 05:21 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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If you have read Phaedo you would understand the context of that quote- I think it is very fitting, something to think about.
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Olympus Mons
esprit de l'univers

Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 5,770
Loc: ∞
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It's not the death that triggers emotions, it's the not understanding. I dont believe it's possible to understand, you just have to get to a point where it doesnt matter. I also once heard someone say that we possess all knowledge that exists in this universe, for we are of this universe, and there is nothing that exists within it that we dont have the potential to understand. death is the ultimate illusion.
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I close my eyes and seize it
I clench my fists and beat it
I light my torch and burn it
I am the beast I worship....
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,886
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: If you have read Phaedo you would understand the context of that quote- I think it is very fitting, something to think about.
Well it's fear of the unknown that is the problem. That's why he's saying it doesn't apply.
But for those silly rabbits that think they know then it would.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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zombi
chillosopher



Registered: 09/13/09
Posts: 627
Loc: Boston area
Last seen: 4 months, 5 days
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Re: How does death make you feel? [Re: Icelander]
#11475707 - 11/17/09 08:16 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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its actually from Apology but whatever. also from apology, this one may explain the previous one I posted better.
Quote:
Let us reflect in another way, and we shall see that there is great reason to hope that death is a good, for one of two things: - either death is a state of nothingness and utter unconsciousness, or, as men say, there is a change and migration of the soul from this world to another. Now if you suppose that there is no consciousness, but a sleep like the sleep of him who is undisturbed even by the sight of dreams, death will be all unspeakable gain. For if a person were to select the night in which his sleep was undisturbed even by dreams, and were to compare with this the other days and nights of his life, and then were to tell us how many days and nights he had passed in the course of his life better and more pleasantly than this one, I think that any man, I will not say a private man, but even the great king will not find many such days or nights, when compared with the others. Now if death is like this, I say that to die is gain; for eternity is then only a single night. But if death is the journey to another place, and there, as men say, all the dead are, what good, O my friends and judges, can be greater than this? If indeed when the pilgrim arrives in the world below, he is delivered from the professors of justice in this world, and finds the true judges who are said to give judgment there, Minos and Rhadamanthus and Aeacus and Triptolemus, and other sons of God who were righteous in their own life, that pilgrimage will be worth making. What would not a man give if he might converse with Orpheus and Musaeus and Hesiod and Homer? Nay, if this be true, let me die again and again. I, too, shall have a wonderful interest in a place where I can converse with Palamedes, and Ajax the son of Telamon, and other heroes of old, who have suffered death through an unjust judgment; and there will be no small pleasure, as I think, in comparing my own sufferings with theirs. Above all, I shall be able to continue my search into true and false knowledge; as in this world, so also in that; I shall find out who is wise, and who pretends to be wise, and is not. What would not a man give, O judges, to be able to examine the leader of the great Trojan expedition; or Odysseus or Sisyphus, or numberless others, men and women too! What infinite delight would there be in conversing with them and asking them questions! For in that world they do not put a man to death for this; certainly not. For besides being happier in that world than in this, they will be immortal, if what is said is true.
that socrates was a pretty smart guy.
-------------------- My words, too, are only an echo; but there is no reason why I should not repeat what I have heard.
-Socrates Let the rabbits wear glasses!
 
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,886
Loc: underbelly
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Re: How does death make you feel? [Re: zombi]
#11475824 - 11/17/09 08:31 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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As I've said, once you get past the fear of death or dying it looks like pretty clear sailing.
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Sadhguru
Guru



Registered: 08/06/09
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Re: How does death make you feel? [Re: Icelander]
#11476037 - 11/17/09 09:00 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Icelander said: As I've said, once you get past the fear of death or dying it looks like pretty clear sailing.

I've dealt a lot with death in my life, from watching it in wars to experiencing it first hand to a few of my family members. It's a learning experience nonetheless. Those events have just shown me that Death is just another part of the process. Its inevitable. Its just the dropping away of Form. The elements will still be there, still the same as they were before, then and after. I just have some attachment right now to 'personality', and one day I won't. I've seen too many 'personalities' ceasing to exist with their physical forms. I didn't have understanding of my Self before I was in this vessel and may or may not care afterwards. Plus I just don't care where I go after this existence.
-------------------- When the many become the One
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burgatory
Outlander



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Re: How does death make you feel? [Re: Sadhguru]
#11476448 - 11/18/09 12:45 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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We're all eternal beings, you are your soul not your body.
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Wherever the hero may wander, whatever he may do, he is ever in the presence of his own essence — for he has the perfected eye to see. There is no separateness. Thus, just as the way of social participation may lead in the end to a realization of the All in the individual, so that of exile brings the hero to the Self in all.
joseph campbell
For, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
jesus
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The Chronic

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 12,003
Loc:
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I find the best way to contemplate death is to directly ask - what is death? who dies?
In a meditative contemplative silent manner
To see that birth, youth, old age, death, all happen... but they are all phenomenal
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soldatheero
lastirishman



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Re: How does death make you feel? [Re: The Chronic]
#11478363 - 11/18/09 02:38 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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"There is no death life is only a dream and we're the imaginations of ourselves" - Bill Hicks Personally I'am also pretty convinced that I'am immortal but I still fear death. The idea of myself will end. I will forget "who I'am" and all the things I'am attached to in this lifetime that give me my sense of identity will be washed away. I'am not enlightened, I have moments of illumination but I am still attached to my the world and my identity in it. The ego fears death even if it has told itself it does not.
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,886
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Re: How does death make you feel? [Re: burgatory]
#11479333 - 11/18/09 05:35 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
burgatory said: We're all eternal beings, you are your soul not your body.
No no you are your thoughts not your soul.
Makes just about as much sense and there is the same amount of evidence of each. Which is none.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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