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 Grizzly Adams
Stranger
Registered: 10/11/09
Posts: 137
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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 how does one go about discovering a new active species?
#11242452 - 10/13/09 07:50 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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are there certain things to look for, a test, or do you just go around eating them until you find something not listed?
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 World Spirit
PNW
Registered: 07/27/01
Posts: 9,817
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Re: how does one go about discovering a new active species? [Re: Grizzly Adams]
#11242477 - 10/13/09 07:54 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Read. Read. And continue to use those same books and new ones coming out.
Start with all of Paul Stamets' books and David Arora's books.
Reading and hunting. Reading and hunting. Reading and hunting. ......
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wowitch17
Growery is Better
Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 8,537
Loc: Chile
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
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Re: how does one go about discovering a new active species? [Re: Grizzly Adams]
#11243085 - 10/13/09 09:24 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Grizzly Adams said:
or do you just go around eating them until you find something not listed?
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cyanophilus
ectosporium
Registered: 06/08/09
Posts: 1,135
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Last seen: 19 days, 17 hours
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Re: how does one go about discovering a new active species? [Re: wowitch17]
#11243124 - 10/13/09 09:33 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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usually it begins with the finding of an unidentifiable mushroom which shares a common feature of a known active mushroom (such as being in the same genus or bruising blue etc)
then microscopy work is done to make sure its not something already recognized, and if its unique its up to you to get chemical testing done 
then its whoever has the balls to do the paperwork on it.
1. find a unique mushroom
2. prove its actually unique
3. get it analyzed or brave it yourself (the "down the hatch" method is not recommended)
4. bust ass on paperwork and possibly get your throat cut (metaphorically) by someone with better paperwork
and yeah its a pretty good idea to get alot of opinions on your specimen before you make any decisions.
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Don’t just keep ones head down and ones pace steady, look behind to make sure there’s no trail of destruction. Consider that the things below ones feet in physicality, are actually above ones head in importance. Remember that we are not the only ones alive, and are definitely not depended upon to continue living. We are an expendable creature in the eyes of the earth. Thus, we must treat ourselves like we are guests. Accommodations must be made for life all over the planet. The power of life is incredibly diverse, intelligent, and intricate in its adaptability. Lets not give nature a reason to consume us in turn.
-Me
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Bretdaniel
Stranger
Registered: 05/08/09
Posts: 2,290
Last seen: 6 days, 13 hours
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Re: how does one go about discovering a new active species? [Re: cyanophilus]
#11243449 - 10/13/09 10:45 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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I say use the down the hatch method. 
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cyanophilus
ectosporium
Registered: 06/08/09
Posts: 1,135
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Last seen: 19 days, 17 hours
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Re: how does one go about discovering a new active species? [Re: Bretdaniel]
#11243468 - 10/13/09 10:51 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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--------------------
Don’t just keep ones head down and ones pace steady, look behind to make sure there’s no trail of destruction. Consider that the things below ones feet in physicality, are actually above ones head in importance. Remember that we are not the only ones alive, and are definitely not depended upon to continue living. We are an expendable creature in the eyes of the earth. Thus, we must treat ourselves like we are guests. Accommodations must be made for life all over the planet. The power of life is incredibly diverse, intelligent, and intricate in its adaptability. Lets not give nature a reason to consume us in turn.
-Me
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mycot
Crazy as fuck
Registered: 05/31/06
Posts: 259
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 2 days, 21 hours
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Re: how does one go about discovering a new active species? [Re: cyanophilus]
#11243525 - 10/13/09 11:06 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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You deff don't go round eating anything you are unsure of unless you want to get seriously sick or die. This is deff no laughing matter.
Next you want to study. Seriously study all the genera in which psilocybian species occur so you are able to identify when a specimen belongs to one of the desired genera. Confidence in this area will go a long way in guaranteeing a measure of safety.
Then you want look for signs of activity such as blue bruising.
So to arrive at a new active species, you might identify blue bruising then allocate to correct genus then compare to known species within that genus.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 24,722
Last seen: 1 day, 1 hour
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Re: how does one go about discovering a new active species? [Re: Grizzly Adams]
#11243546 - 10/13/09 11:13 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 16,171
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Re: how does one go about discovering a new active species? [Re: cyanophilus]
#11244062 - 10/14/09 02:12 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
cyanophilus said:
1. find a unique mushroom
2. prove its actually unique
3. get it analyzed or brave it yourself (the "down the hatch" method is not recommended)
4. bust ass on paperwork and possibly get your throat cut (metaphorically) by someone with better paperwork
Well put. I may add that if you fail to publish a paper in a peer-reviewed journal as part of step 4, it is likely that you will never be credited for your discovery.
In any case, discovering a new active species is not something you decide one morning and then pull it off somewhere around noon. It's more plausible that you discover a new species as you're trying to get an unknown mushroom identified, find out that nobody recognizes it, then you may notice some bluing, decide to do some chemical analysis on it and describe the whole shebang. It's even more likely that you, for some reason, conduct chemical analysis on specimens of a known species and discover that it actually may be psychoactive, while it may have been considered merely inedible, toxic or of unknown edibility beforehand. Actually, if you really want to discover a new active species, I'd choose this route. Root around in some genera that are known to contain some active species and make some educated guesses regarding species that may contain active compounds and then do the whole analysis and research thing.
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IcelandicSojourn
Monist in Training
Registered: 08/03/09
Posts: 621
Loc: Valleys of the Natives
Last seen: 3 months, 28 days
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Re: how does one go about discovering a new active species? [Re: koraks]
#11244152 - 10/14/09 03:05 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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So if I'm an amateur and I don't even own a microscope, let's say, and I post up some pics on the shroomery of a species that seems like a unique active...Someone suggests I send out a specimen to so & so, and I do... Assuming it is a unique active sp., what's likely to happen? (assuming I can write very well, but that's the only part I'm confident in).
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Ne me parlez plus de politique
Je veux sauver ma vie 
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 16,171
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Re: how does one go about discovering a new active species? [Re: IcelandicSojourn]
#11244245 - 10/14/09 04:18 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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It depends on how you manage the process from that point onwards. If you just send a sample to someone, chances are that that someone does some research into the species and publishes the results if they are worthy of publication. You're merely the tip-giver in that case and you're lucky if you're mentioned at all. On the other hand, you could also try and set up a collaboration with a mycologist, establish a relationship with mutual trust and make any publication the product of the collaboration instead of either individual.
Quote:
(assuming I can write very well, but that's the only part I'm confident in).
I'm not aware of your experience in writing, but keep in mind that authoring an academic paper is different from other genres and it's also a notch or two up the same scale compared to your average college paper assignment. Be aware of what value you can bring to a possible collaboration, but also be aware of the limitations to your skills in this particular situation.
Edited by koraks (10/14/09 04:19 AM)
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HerbBaker
Stranger
Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 2,390
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Re: how does one go about discovering a new active species? [Re: koraks]
#11244457 - 10/14/09 06:30 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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If its a unique find you'll get your name on it, along with the mycologist you sent it to.
Heres some advice on the scientific aspects of collecting fungi from Dr. Tulloss.
"Part of the knowledge is about naming rules and conventions.
Part is about taxonomy (how to segregate collections into species).
Part is biology and chemistry (how does it reproduce? how does it get color? how does is make poison?)
And part is like materials science or mechanical engineering (why does the volva break this way or that way? Why do warts take on the forms they take on?)
And then there’s the math part…
And…"
It would be better to leave the writing to a mycologist and just get your credit, unless you have a lot of time to spend studying.
It must be published in a peer reviewed journal; i dont believe descriptions have to be written in Latin anymore.
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Bretdaniel
Stranger
Registered: 05/08/09
Posts: 2,290
Last seen: 6 days, 13 hours
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Re: how does one go about discovering a new active species? [Re: HerbBaker]
#11244804 - 10/14/09 08:24 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Well Mycot they had to figure out what mushrooms did in the old days 
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mycot
Crazy as fuck
Registered: 05/31/06
Posts: 259
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 2 days, 21 hours
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Re: how does one go about discovering a new active species? [Re: Bretdaniel]
#11250481 - 10/15/09 12:14 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bretdaniel said:
Well Mycot they had to figure out what mushrooms did in the old days
 What??? You want to re-invent the wheel.
In the old days there were plenty of poisonings. There's no need to line up behind them.
I've found plenty of interesting shrooms because I had some knowledge behind me. Additionally I have also found and ingested a good number of un-described "new active species" that were identified down to genus. And I could do such with confidence that I wasn't poisoning myself.
It's not that hard. There's only a few genera that have active species and you want to know the characteristics of. If you want to experiment do it with knowledge backing you. To simply eat random fungi is both stupid and dangerous.
Edited by mycot (10/15/09 12:44 AM)
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