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 veggie
Registered: 07/25/04
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 Two Obama czars opt out of drug war forum 
#11093115 - 09/20/09 01:21 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Two Obama czars opt out of drug war forum
September 20, 2009 - newspapertree.com
“I don’t know why you’re all so surprised about the federal government’s unwillingness to address this because, quite frankly, they’ve ignored the problem for years, and that’s why we’re in the situation we’re in now." -- El Paso County Sheriff Richard Wiles.
Two key Obama administration officials have dropped out of this coming week’s Global Public Policy Forum on the U.S. War on Drugs, raising questions about whether U.S. federal authorities will be listening to what goes on so far from Washington and so close to the bloody front of the real drug war.
At a panel discussion organized by the El Paso Press Club on Saturday, UTEP Professor Kathy Staudt announced that President Obama’s border czar Alan Bersin and National drug control policy czar Gil Kerlikowske surprised organizers by bowing out days before the start of the conference.
Ahead of the 40th anniversary of the "War on Drugs" that President Richard Nixon declared in 1969, the forum will take place on the UTEP campus and in Juarez on Monday and Tuesday.
The purpose, according to forum’s website, will be to "take a comparative look at the drug-war policy in an effort to calculate the effects on societies and economies." War on Drugs forum
UTEP Assistant Professor Tony Payan, an authority on the two-year conflict between the Juarez and Sinaloa drug cartels, said the absence of Obama’s two top advisors suggests that the young administration is still uncertain about its own stand on the nation’s decades-old drug policy.
El Paso County Sheriff Richard Wiles offered this scathing assessment:
“I don’t know why you’re all so surprised about the federal government’s unwillingness to address this because, quite frankly, they’ve ignored the problem for years, and that’s why we’re in the situation we’re in now.
“As a matter of fact, the only reason that we’ve got national attention is because it’s on the backs of the dead people in Juarez.”
While federal laws and policy still call for drug interdiction and the prosecution of drug traffickers and users alike, Wiles said, “we have been on a slope of decriminalization for years.”
In the 1960s, he said, simple possession of marijuana was a felony in Texas, but the laws have been loosened to the point that the possession of a small amount of the drug is now a misdemeanor for which people receive a citation instead of being arrested.
Last month, the Mexican government legalized possession of small amounts of marijuana in hopes of eliminating some of the incentive for the on-going cartel wars there.
El Paso city Rep. Beto O’Rourke said he hopes for a meaningful public discussion at the conference about legalizing drugs in the face of a failed strategy that has had such a destructive impact on everyday life in Juarez.
“I think that many of us here were at the Border Security Conference last month, and I thought it was very fitting that you had the border czar and the drug czar construct this Potemkin village of ‘Everything’s okay.’
“Look, (Mexican President) Calderon’s decided to fight the drug war, we’re pumping money in there, (saying) ‘Let’s stay the course; let’s stick with it; everything’s going to be okay.’ ”
“And what struck me was how disassociated with reality these people were, and I found myself thinking, or asking, ‘What planet are they on?’ ”
The energy behind the move to stage this week’s drug forum sprang largely from the controversy that arose last January over a resolution introduced to the El Paso City Council by the city’s Border Relations Committee addressing the drug war.
The council unanimously approved the with a 12-word amendment offered by O’Rourke urging the federal government to come to the aid of Juarez by "supporting an honest open national debate on ending the prohibition on narcotics."
The resolution created a furor and Mayor John Cook vetoed it, leading to the approval of the original resolution calling for a conference to examine U.S. drug policy and the War on Drugs.
O’Rourke recalled that in the midst of the debate over the resolution, Sal Payan, speaking for U.S. Rep. Silvestre Reyes’ office, predicted that the violence that too more than 1,600 lives in Juarez last year would play itself out within six months.
Reyes himself likened the conflict to the movie “Last Man Standing” in which, O’Rourke said, the two sides would “kill each other off and eventually one side will win.”
Since then, O’Rourke said, his position has shifted from supporting a national discussion about legalizing some drugs, to favoring the decriminalization of drugs, especially marijuana.
As much as I can, as far … as I can, I want to push that point of view,” he said.
UTEP’s Tony Payan said the conflict in Juarez is no longer just between two cartels but involves tens of thousands of young, uneducated men who have lost jobs and resorted to crime in a city that can no longer fight crime.
“We are talking about 100,000 young men with nothing else to do and … nowhere to go,” he said. “You can kill 10,000 or 20,000 and there’s still 20,000 waiting to take their place in crime.
“The city has fallen into veritable chaos, and you can see it on the streets of Juarez.”
Given the extent of the bloodshed between the two cartels, he said, it is unlikely that Juarez will see the peace that settled over Nuevo Laredo several years ago when a drug war there ended.
Reyes may have been right.
“They have done so much damage to one another that there will be no pax mafiosa,” Payan said, “It will be a fight to the death, and it could go on for months.”
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 Coaster
Baʿal
 
Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 33,501
Loc: Deep in the Valley
Last seen: 7 months, 16 days
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Re: Two Obama czars opt out of drug war forum [Re: veggie]
#11093266 - 09/20/09 02:28 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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typikalllllllllllllllllllll
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starfirex
Cactus Hippy
Registered: 09/04/09
Posts: 630
Loc: New Mexico
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Re: Two Obama czars opt out of drug war forum [Re: Coaster]
#11093405 - 09/20/09 04:12 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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maybe if we all pull hard enough, we can pull our government's head out of its ass
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If the neighbors complain 'cause the music is too loud, turn it up so you can't hear them bitch. ~ I'm blowing my mind....one ass-kicking trip at a time.... 
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SOUTHERN
NAIL DRIVER
Registered: 03/29/09
Posts: 808
Loc: south
Last seen: 3 hours, 46 minutes
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Re: Two Obama czars opt out of drug war forum [Re: starfirex]
#11093662 - 09/20/09 07:33 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Sounds like a tug of war, pulling there head outta there ass. i always heard stick your head up your ass and jump till ya disappear.. but i don't think they r gonna disappear. The problem now days is the government is not for the people it for the government.. what can you do??
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Green_T
Getting to the chopper
Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 4,024
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Re: Two Obama czars opt out of drug war forum [Re: SOUTHERN]
#11093686 - 09/20/09 07:47 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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I posted the article announcing this discussion here.
I've been following the El Paso newspapers for a while now, and the opinion pages all say there needs to be a serious debate. This is that debate.
It doesn't surprise me that top officials would opt out. At least they didn't walk out! Its also worth pointing out that legalization is not going to come from the top; its going to come from communities, cities, and the individual states.
In that way, their attendance wouldn't do that much. It might have showed them a different point of view from the bullshit they think, but even if their minds were changed, they probably couldn't do much. I see prohibitionists as conspiracy-theorist type people: No matter how much evidence you show them, they are stuck in their beliefs and shun reality.
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SOUTHERN
NAIL DRIVER
Registered: 03/29/09
Posts: 808
Loc: south
Last seen: 3 hours, 46 minutes
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Re: Two Obama czars opt out of drug war forum [Re: Green_T]
#11093702 - 09/20/09 07:54 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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we need a national petition ( i don't know what it would do but might draw some attention.
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Green_T
Getting to the chopper
Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 4,024
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Re: Two Obama czars opt out of drug war forum [Re: SOUTHERN]
#11093794 - 09/20/09 08:28 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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If there was a "teabagger" style protest in DC, heads would start turning. Unfortunately, it is hard to organize the type of people that smoke, and many of them don't want to show their links to the illegal underground.
I believe the most effective way is to first have marijuana possession/consumption pushed down to lowest law enforcement priority with small fines in as many places as possible. The way to do this is to talk to mayors, representatives, etc. To get this passed, a good compromise is to make penalties stricter for teens. The goal is to get public support and get this on the ballot - this happens on the district level if I'm not mistaken. Debates and the like can be held. This has been done in several cities so far.
More info here: http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/459/marijuana_lowest_enforcement_priority_initiatives
Once it is at the lowest law enforcement priority, a similar ballot can be pushed with the goal of less enforcement/minimal fines for up to X amount (6?) plants grown on private property. A good way is to cut all police operations which use FLIR and electricity monitoring. The compromise is to increase penalties if other drugs are found (implying gang/cartel activity). This has not been done in any cities, but would be a tremendous benefit.
Legalization will come from the states giving the feds the finger due to overwhelming support from its citizens, and the feds eventually buckling from the amount of state pressure. I don't see it occurring the same way Prohibition I ended, but rather going from majority of states -> feds -> minority of states.
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"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" - Thomas Jefferson
Legalize Meth | Drug War Victims
Their vial of acid, which is on the table over there, tastes vile because they're incompetent chemists.
Edited by Green_T (09/20/09 08:39 AM)
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Unparalized
Young Cardinal
Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 326
Loc: USA
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Two Obama czars opt out of drug war forum [Re: Green_T]
#11093826 - 09/20/09 08:39 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
legalization is not going to come from the top; its going to come from communities, cities, and the individual states
The 13 states that now have legalized marijuana are leading the way in this "separation from federal" mentality. That's what the whole civil war was over, though so often written off as a fight over slavery, it was over states laws being medial laws and instituting a "united" federal law. With the FDA's narrow-mindedness and mentality of "if we just keep putting shit off, they will quit trying" we get such a thing as states saying fuck u to the federal policy and returning to state rights as ultimate law!!! GOD bless us, we might see in some of our lifetime a return to freedom of individuals as this nation was founded.
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This Is All Just An Echo Of What Has All Ready Happened!
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SuperD
Lophophiend
Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 5,182
Loc: My stash box
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Re: Two Obama czars opt out of drug war forum [Re: Green_T]
#11093858 - 09/20/09 08:49 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
El Paso city Rep. Beto O’Rourke said he hopes for a meaningful public discussion at the conference about legalizing drugs in the face of a failed strategy that has had such a destructive impact on everyday life in Juarez any place that still carries ridiculous penalties for mere drug consumption/possession.
Fixed.
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I'd like you to meet my local drug dealer 
Bruce Campbell for a day! said: Go misidentify a mushroom please.
I'm a psilovibin' psilocybeing 
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sorahtak
Tiger Hugger
Registered: 07/02/08
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Re: Two Obama czars opt out of drug war forum [Re: veggie]
#11094184 - 09/20/09 10:15 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Last month, the Mexican government legalized possession of small amounts of marijuana in hopes of eliminating some of the incentive for the on-going cartel wars there.
How does that eliminate incentive for the cartels? 
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SuperD
Lophophiend
Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 5,182
Loc: My stash box
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Re: Two Obama czars opt out of drug war forum [Re: sorahtak]
#11094216 - 09/20/09 10:21 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
sorahtak said:
Quote:
Last month, the Mexican government legalized possession of small amounts of marijuana in hopes of eliminating some of the incentive for the on-going cartel wars there.
How does that eliminate incentive for the cartels?
I asked myself that very same question. I'm not sure what the official reasoning was behind this decision, but I'd sure love to hear it.
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I'd like you to meet my local drug dealer
Bruce Campbell for a day! said: Go misidentify a mushroom please.
I'm a psilovibin' psilocybeing
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starfirex
Cactus Hippy
Registered: 09/04/09
Posts: 630
Loc: New Mexico
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Re: Two Obama czars opt out of drug war forum [Re: SuperD]
#11094252 - 09/20/09 10:28 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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I heard that the reasoning was, the Mexican police didnt want to waste time chasing petty bullshit when there were bigger fish to fry....so they made small time possession/use redefine as a medical problem....which is definitely a step in the right direction. Now Argentina has legalized all drugs for personal use. Their reason was, that in a truly free country, it isnt free if the government is telling people what they can put in their own bodies.... now, we need some of those fucking politicians to immigrate here....those pathetic bloated self-centered assholes we presently have running this country have got to go!
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If the neighbors complain 'cause the music is too loud, turn it up so you can't hear them bitch. ~ I'm blowing my mind....one ass-kicking trip at a time....
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sorahtak
Tiger Hugger
Registered: 07/02/08
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Re: Two Obama czars opt out of drug war forum [Re: starfirex]
#11094323 - 09/20/09 10:49 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
starfirex said:
I heard that the reasoning was, the Mexican police didnt want to waste time chasing petty bullshit when there were bigger fish to fry....so they made small time possession/use redefine as a medical problem....which is definitely a step in the right direction. Now Argentina has legalized all drugs for personal use. Their reason was, that in a truly free country, it isnt free if the government is telling people what they can put in their own bodies.... now, we need some of those fucking politicians to immigrate here....those pathetic bloated self-centered assholes we presently have running this country have got to go!
See, that's all well and good, but it still doesn't eliminate incentive for the cartels. Yes, decriminalization is a step in the right direction, but I don't understand how they can advocate decriminalization without legalization. They're basically saying "You can have it, but you can't get it." Thus production and distribution is still in the hands of the unscrupulous, hence all the violence.
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starfirex
Cactus Hippy
Registered: 09/04/09
Posts: 630
Loc: New Mexico
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Re: Two Obama czars opt out of drug war forum [Re: sorahtak]
#11094394 - 09/20/09 11:03 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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you have to understand, they are being strong-armed by their 'friends' here in the DEA......most other south american countries are telling uncle sam to shove their war on drugs up the ass....put it another way since the US War on Drugs has created such a profit bonanza for risk takers, there is nothing any government can do to shut down the violence. but at least they have the common sense to see that users arent the problem
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If the neighbors complain 'cause the music is too loud, turn it up so you can't hear them bitch. ~ I'm blowing my mind....one ass-kicking trip at a time....
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Cannabischarlie
Yarry's Apprentice
Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 12,386
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Re: Two Obama czars opt out of drug war forum [Re: veggie]
#11094702 - 09/20/09 12:03 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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The Obama Administration is the first Administration so far to step in the right direction of ending the war on drugs.
I am sure some conservatives will blame all of whats going on because of the last, what, 75 years of prohibition has caused on the newer policies.
It is hard to tell from this article, maybe its just me, but is that Sheriff actually going against prohibition?
if so, how about we get as many shroomery people to call up and leave him a voicemail applauding that. It is about time we started getting more and more (it seems inevitable) members of Law Enforcement realizing they are put in jeopardy of corruption and violence spending all their time fighting dr00gz and filling their jails and prisons and courts with drug offenders.
Police brutality, misconduct, and textbook corruption (i.e. cops stealing and selling drugs or money) would plummet to the levels of isolated incidents that could be looked into if the War on Drugs ended. It means instead of requiring 10 week training courses and hiring people with more in common with criminals just to fight the crime resulting from drugs (robberies, etc, not the actual non crime of drug use) and also the aformentioned non crime of simply being a drug user and start at least getting pre-screened cops with at least an associates degree.
The amount of police needed would drop. The War on Drugs and previous prohibition attempts show a very clear distinction in destroying Americas values and the reverberating effect causes the overwhelming majority of problems in our country, some that we no longer think about.
We will have a new renassaince as soon as this hydra of prohibition is finally destroyed
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 we could all use a little more sunshine.
 yeah, she's funny and somewhat interesting. not a beauty queen, but not bad lookin. i'd feel quite honored to fuck janine garofalo. -tiny_rabid_birds
If you're actaully racist in real life though, you're literally a homosexual faggot.-StevenMichael
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Olskool420
Stranger
Registered: 09/20/09
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Re: Two Obama czars opt out of drug war forum [Re: Cannabischarlie]
#11094953 - 09/20/09 01:00 PM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Greetings Shroomery! Been browsing this site for a while, and just decided to make this my first post.
It's becoming more and more common to see officers who favor decriminalization. I personally love the idea of getting a $100 fine for a sack, it's a much better alternative than our laws in Mississippi and is a deterrent at the same time.
There also seems to be a growing trend of state and local governments actually realizing what kind of power they have. If it's ever to be decriminalized in the right way, it will have to happen from the inside out.
This is a great site and worthy of a bump.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
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It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it hath it not.
-Jeremy Taylor
The first condition of immortality is death.
-Stanislaw J. Lec
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Cannabischarlie
Yarry's Apprentice
Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 12,386
Last seen: 19 days, 14 hours
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Re: Two Obama czars opt out of drug war forum [Re: Olskool420]
#11098510 - 09/21/09 01:06 AM (2 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Olskool420 said:
It's becoming more and more common to see officers who favor decriminalization. I personally love the idea of getting a $100 fine for a sack, it's a much better alternative than our laws in Mississippi and is a deterrent at the same time.
This is a great site and worthy of a bump.
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition
okay, but why is a deterent a good thing?
see, i agree that decriminalization for something like that is clearly a good idea. we have that in colorado and this place is a conservative shithole, and its funny that you say mississippi...
no offense to that state, but i always call CO the mississippi of the rocky mountains.
i dont know if they arrest usually for it in other states, but that is fuckin asinine that we probably have states that do. for any drug for that matter. even if its a misdemeanor do we seriously need to incarcerate drug POSSESSERS?
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This section of the signature line has been intentionally left blank.
we could all use a little more sunshine.
yeah, she's funny and somewhat interesting. not a beauty queen, but not bad lookin. i'd feel quite honored to fuck janine garofalo. -tiny_rabid_birds
If you're actaully racist in real life though, you're literally a homosexual faggot.-StevenMichael
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Olskool420
Stranger
Registered: 09/20/09
Posts: 153
Last seen: 11 months, 4 days
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Re: Two Obama czars opt out of drug war forum [Re: Cannabischarlie]
#11112404 - 09/23/09 11:33 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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You should come stay with us for a while if you like conservatism.
There was a special ballot last election time, to end the prohibition of alcohol in my county. It failed miserably thanks to the local Baptist Association renting out whole page ads in all (the three) the local newspapers. So, needless to say, I still live in a dry county. Possession of any alcohol in my entire county, period, is mandatory arrest.
Several adjacent counties have just silly rules, such as towns being able to sell liquor while the possession of it in the county is still illegal. Even our state capital shuts down liquor sales at midnight and on Sunday unless I'm mistaken.
I believe the only drug charge you don't -have- to be taken to jail for in Mississippi is Possession of Marijuana in a Motor Vehicle, in which you have to carry it in the trunk, and it has to be under an ounce, and you're probably going to jail anyway.
Edit: A deterrent in this case would just be a way for the police to get a little cash out of the deal, call it a tax. 
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It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it hath it not.
-Jeremy Taylor
The first condition of immortality is death.
-Stanislaw J. Lec
Edited by Olskool420 (09/23/09 11:37 AM)
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veggie
Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 13,985
Loc:
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Re: Two Obama czars opt out of drug war forum [Re: veggie]
#11113113 - 09/23/09 01:52 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Drug War forum organizers looking ahead, not happy about officials' absence
September 23, 2009 - newspapertree.com
“Legalization is not in their vocabulary, and I can tell you not to expect any thing like that in their vocabulary.” spokesman for national drug czar Gil Kerlikowske regarding what may be part of a new national drug policy now in the works.
Encouraged by the turn out of experts and the public at this week’s El Paso drug conference, organizers hope to see it replicated elsewhere and want to keep the momentum going locally with a series of mini-conferences around the city.
Organizers also said they were disappointed, though not surprised by the lack of federal and state officials, including members of the El Paso legislative delegation, at the conference.
“Conferences like this need to happen in other cities, and when they do, it’s really important for their elected representatives to be there,” said UTEP sociology Professor Kathleen Staudt, one of the events lead organizers.
She said invitations were sent months ago to various federal and state officials, including the U.S. Senators for Texas and New Mexico, Gov. Rick Perry’s office and legislators. A few officials, including U.S. Rep. Silvestre Reyes and state Sen. Eliot Shapleigh, sent representatives but none of them took part in any of the discussion.
El Paso city Rep. Beto O’Rourke, also a conference organizer, said the poor showing by agency and elected officials “wasn’t for a lack of trying.”
Sparked by the cartel war and killings in Juarez, the two-day conference and its speakers focused heavily on failures of the 40-year-long War on Drugs and drug policies in the United States, which have cost hundreds of billions of dollars and put millions of Americans behind bars.
The consensus at the conference seemed to be that new policies and laws need to move toward decriminalization or legalization of marijuana along with its regulation and strong education efforts.
“If you’re a national policymaker, there’s a good chance that you’ve thought about this and that laws should change, but you just don’t have the guts to put your job at risk by saying it publicly,” O’Rourke said. “If the national and state policymakers know it’s safe to talk about this in earnest, that will be a significant development.”
Locally, he said, he has seen the views of Reyes, Sheriff Richard Wiles and Mayor John Cook change since questions about U.S. drug policy were raised by City Council in January.
“That gives me a lot of hope for the affect a conference like this can have” he said.
National and state officials knew that’s where the discussion would be headed at the El Paso conference, which included forum in Juarez with the former mayor of Medellin, Colombia, that attracted 2,000 people.
O’Rourke said the idea of participating in a forum focusing critcally on the War on Drugs so close to the front of the cartel war in Juarez was “too hot for DC to touch.”
Among the officials that the conference organizers invited who did not attend was Gil Kerlikowske, director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy, who did attend the border security conference in El Paso in August.
His office’s spokesman, Darren Bricoe, said Kerlikowske and other officials are in the process of drafting a new national drug that will not address the War on Drugs when it comes out in January.
“One of the first things he did upon confirmation is say the ‘War on Drugs is over and the term has outlived its usefulness,” he said. “What we have had is a drug control policy focused on the criminal aspect.
Without abandoning that, Briscoe said, a major aspect of the new policy will be approaching drug use as a public health issue that will include treating drug addiction as a disease and increasing the emphasis on drug treatment and prevention.
Nor will that policy address legalization or decriminalization.
“Legalization is not in their vocabulary, and I can tell you not to expect any thing like that in their vocabulary,” Briscoe said.
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