Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!
|
 PookztA
Medical Student
Registered: 09/09/05
Posts: 1,225
Loc: Illinois
Last seen: 7 months, 15 days
|
 The Middle East Conflict & Israel's Influence On America 
#10863101 - 08/14/09 11:58 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Dear Forum,
Here is an important issue I would like to gather opinions on (any feedback is appreciated):
Did you know that America gives billions of dollars to Israel each year, including money to fund their military efforts, and we are still doing so today even though our country really needs the money during this economic crisis? If we were also giving the Palestinians a substantial amount of money, I would not be as upset... but our tax dollars are primarily going to support only one side of the conflict, which creates anti-American rage in the Middle East.
From: http://www.ifamericansonlyknew.org/stats/usaid.html
"The U.S. is providing Israel with at least $7.0 million each day* in military aid and is giving the Palestinians $0** in military aid during Fiscal Year 2009."
"Since the October War in 1973, Washington has provided Israel with a level of support dwarfing the amounts provided to any other state. It has been the largest annual recipient of direct U.S. economic and military assistance since 1976 and the largest total recipient since World War ll. Total direct U.S. aid to Israel amounts to well over $140 billion dollars. Israel receives about $3 billion in direct foreign assistance each year, which is roughly one-fifth of America's entire foreign aid budget. In per capita terms, the United States gives each Israeli a direct subsidy worth about $500 per year. This largesse is especially striking when one realizes that Israel is now a wealthy industrial state with a per capita income roughly equal to South Korea or Spain.”
More information and sources of the data: http://www.ifamericansonlyknew.org/stats/usaid.html#source
--------------------------
Israel's source of influence on USA politics comes from a group called AIPAC, which stands for the American-Israeli Public Affairs Committee (http://www.aipac.org/about_AIPAC/default.asp). Each year, AIPAC members meet with countless U.S. congressmen to push their pro-Israel agenda. Although this process of mass-lobbying is legal, it is totally unfair to the American people since the foreign country of Israel has more say over what America will do with its policies and money than many of our own domestic lobbying groups do.
How come America gives so much Financial Aid to a country that is causing so much injustice to the Palestinian people that once lived in Israel, especially during this time of economic crisis when our country needs its money the most?
Want to know more facts about the unfair situation / Middle Eastern conflict between Israel and the Palestinians, and America's involvement in the conflict? If so, click here: http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
--------------------------
UPDATE 08/14/09 - Barack Obama's 2008 AIPAC Speech
"As President, I (Barack Obama) will implement a memorandum of understanding that provides $30 billion in assistance to Israel over the next decade, investments to Israel’s security that will not be tied to any other nation." (from page 2, paragraph 5)
Link to speech: http://middleeast.about.com/od/usmideastpolicy/a/me080605.htm
--------------------------
UPDATE 08/15/09
RECENT NEWS Regarding Israel, Gaza, and Lebanon
Hezbollah (Lebanon) issues Israeli warning - SATURDAY, AUGUST 15, 2009 / 01:05 MECCA TIME, 22:05 GMT
""We (Lebanon) do not want war, but we are not afraid of it and we say to you: if you bomb Beirut or its suburb, we will bomb Tel Aviv," he said."
"Israel's 33-day war with Hezbollah in the summer of 2006 resulted in the deaths of more than 1,200 Lebanese civilians, a third of them children, as well as 160 Israelis, mostly soldiers."
Link to article: http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/08/200981420413783646.html
Israel troops 'shot Gaza civilians' - FRIDAY, AUGUST 14, 2009 / 16:30 MECCA TIME, 13:30 GMT
"Israeli soldiers unlawfully shot and killed 11 Palestinian civilians, including four children, who were in groups waving white flags during the Gaza war, a report prepared by the US-based Human Rights Watch says."
Link to article: http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/08/200981335844986966.html
UN: Israel had 'impunity' in Gaza - SATURDAY, AUGUST 15, 2009 / 00:56 MECCA TIME, 21:56 GMT
"The senior human rights official at the United Nations has said that the Israeli military acted with "near impunity" during its late-December to mid-January offensive on the Gaza Strip, violating international law."
"Rights violations included torture, extra-judicial execution, forced eviction, arbitrary detention, home demolition and other violence and restrictions on freedom of movement and expression, Pillay said."
"The 34-page report is the first of two ordered by the UN Human Rights Council in January.".
Link to article: http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/08/2009814194238750450.html
--------------------------
UPDATE 08/16/09
RECENT NEWS from the United Nations regarding Israel
Photo of Gaza in January 2008
UN reports significant prima facie evidence of serious rights abuses against Palestinians in Gaza - AUGUST 14, 2009
Download the official UN report here (Right Click, Save As): http://ap.ohchr.org/documents/E/HRC/report/A_HRC_12_37.doc
"There is significant prima facie evidence of serious violations of international humanitarian law having been committed by the Israeli forces and Palestinian militants,” UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay says in a new report, cautioning that her office is not yet in a position to assess each and every individual instance."
"Allegations include Israeli attacks on Gaza civilians and numerous civilian administrative facilities, hospitals, schools and 27,000 private homes, as well as a large number of extrajudicial executions, beatings and torture by the Palestinian group Hamas against alleged collaborators with Israel and supporters of the rival Fatah organizations during and after the military operation."
Link to article: http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=31768&Cr=palestin&Cr1=
--------------------------
Here is my problem. AIPAC represents a small minority view in the USA, a view which advocates for billions in funding and military support despite the fact that our country is literally in the worst economic recession since the great depression. Look here, and you will see that AIPAC is listed as the Number 2 or 3 most influential lobbying group in the USA:
1. http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1997/12/08/234927/index.htm
2. http://www.top10links.com/cat.php/Society%3AGovernment%3APolitics%3ALobbying+Groups#
When a minority view dominates our country and media so severely that we continue to shell out billions to them during our ECONOMIC RECESSION, even when Israel wants new defense items such as the Iron Dome Missile Defense System while simultaneously refusing to pay for it and pressuring the USA to pay for it instead (see here: http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/obama-okays-205m-for-iron-dome-1.290284 ), that is a problem. Not just for me, but for everyone in this country, whether they realize it or not.
--------------------------
Thoughts, opinions, or feedback are appreciated.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Cheers,
-Abe
--------------------
Abrahm
Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA
Expand Your Consciousness. 
 9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com
Edited by PookztA (08/07/10 02:16 AM)
|
JT
amphetamine dream
 
Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 6,747
Loc: athens 
Last seen: 17 days, 22 hours
|
 Re: The Middle East Conflict & Israel's Influence On America *UPDATED 08/15/09* [Re: PookztA]
#10863234 - 08/15/09 12:28 AM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
that's great can i quote you on my thesis paper?
|
PookztA
Medical Student
Registered: 09/09/05
Posts: 1,225
Loc: Illinois
Last seen: 7 months, 15 days
|
Re: The Middle East Conflict & Israel's Influence On America *UPDATED 08/15/09* [Re: JT]
#10868546 - 08/16/09 02:06 AM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
is that an opinion? looking for opinions on all this stuff... the sources are biased, but the info seems to check out...
seems Israel is being rather unfair if you ask me, but I am looking for opinions because I am not an expert on the issue.
thanks for the comment though
-Abe
--------------------
Abrahm
Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA
Expand Your Consciousness.
9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com
|
 GI_Luvmoney
Vote Republican!
Registered: 05/10/09
Posts: 939
|
Re: The Middle East Conflict & Israel's Influence On America *UPDATED 08/15/09* [Re: PookztA]
#10869210 - 08/16/09 07:57 AM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Islamic extremists put Israel in place because they believe that the only guarentee that a Muslim has of going to Heaven is to die in jihad. If Israel didn't exist, they would create another one and another one and another one until the whole world lived under Taliban control or all of the Islamic extremists died. Victory or death are both acceptable to the Islamic extremist (Surah 4:74 Noble Quran).
Edited by GI_Luvmoney (08/16/09 08:00 AM)
|
PookztA
Medical Student
Registered: 09/09/05
Posts: 1,225
Loc: Illinois
Last seen: 7 months, 15 days
|
Re: The Middle East Conflict & Israel's Influence On America *UPDATED 08/15/09* [Re: GI_Luvmoney]
#10870926 - 08/16/09 01:58 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
GI_Luvmoney said:
Islamic extremists put Israel in place because they believe that the only guarentee that a Muslim has of going to Heaven is to die in jihad. If Israel didn't exist, they would create another one and another one and another one until the whole world lived under Taliban control or all of the Islamic extremists died. Victory or death are both acceptable to the Islamic extremist (Surah 4:74 Noble Quran).
LOL...
so according to you, "All Muslims believe that they cannot go to Heaven unless they die in a jihad."
amazing.
thanks for your opinion though.
--------------------
Abrahm
Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA
Expand Your Consciousness.
9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com
Edited by PookztA (08/16/09 09:17 PM)
|
PookztA
Medical Student
Registered: 09/09/05
Posts: 1,225
Loc: Illinois
Last seen: 7 months, 15 days
|
Re: The Middle East Conflict & Israel's Influence On America *UPDATED 08/16/09* [Re: PookztA]
#10878373 - 08/17/09 07:34 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Dear Forum,
I have nothing against Israel or the people of Israel, for they earned their right to be there. What I have a problem with is the fact that more people are suffering because of the money America gives to Israel. The Jewish people established and defended the State Of Israel on their own, and should be able to defend it on their own. There is absolutely no reason that Israel has to USE the United States to defend itself against the Arab world. If the situation were fair, the United States would support BOTH Israel AND Palestine (West Bank & Gaza), OR the United States would support NEITHER side.
America is making it worse by heavily supporting only Israel! The Arabs and Israeli's should resolve the conflict on their own. America is making it worse by heavily financing only ONE SIDE of the conflict. That is the only thing I am against, is the fact that America is suffering to defend Israel. America should either suffer to defend both sides and to help resolve the conflict peacefully, or we should not suffer at all and just let Israel defend themselves. That is my opinion.
Another fact, Israel's military occupation of West Bank and Gaza is what prompted Hamas, the Palestinian terrorist organization, to begin attacking Israel with rockets recently. How would you feel if a foreign country's military troops and tanks occupied our country? Surely, America would attack that foreign country just as the Palestinian Hamas group attacked Israel for their military occupation of Palestine...
In my opinion, Israel should pull a majority of its military out of Gaza, work on strenghtening its own borders and defense, stop expanding their Israeli settlements into Palestinian territory, and should preserve the Palestinian areas of West Bank and Gaza as Palestinian Reservations, similar to the Native American reservations here in America. The fact that Israel chooses to occupy Gaza and West Bank with military efforts to ensure that they can keep expanding into those Palestinian areas speaks for itself... and the fact that America is giving TONS of money to Israel to help them do this is only making things worse... and it comes at the expense of the American people!
MY POINT: The situation is unfair, yet America is making it even more unfair by supporting only Israel. The American people are suffering because of the amount of money we give to Israel. Yes, both sides (Israel and Palestine) are suffering due to the conflict, but America is only helping ONE side! We should be supporting both sides, or neither side, for we are only making it worse, and the American people are suffering because of it. So please chill out, for I have nothing against the State of Israel, nor the Jewish people which earned their right to live there. I simply want America to stop fueling the conflict.
It is your money, my money, and everyone's money, that is NOT being invested into finding alternative energy sources, NOT being invested into reforming businesses so that they become more ecologically sustainable, NOT being invested into helping families born into poverty to start small businesses so that they can get on their own feet, and NOT being invested into scientific exploration of space and new technologies....
Rather, our money is going to support one side of a WAR.
...and I don't think it is in anyone's best interests to support WAR.
in my opinion, Israel is using America via the powerful Pro-Israeli Jewish Lobby, AIPAC, and other such individuals and organizations. This would explain the high amount of Israel-American dual-citizens in high-ranking political offices, including Barack Obama's Chief of Staff advisor Rahm Emanuel (who's father helped fight against the Palestinians in the 1930s).
I'm basing my opinion on an objective point of view which has been generated by looking at all the media sources, both biased and unbiased, some sources in support of Israel and others in support of the other side of the conflict, to reach a middle ground conclusion. This is the middle ground I have reached.
Here are some stats to back up what I mean when I say that I am all for Israel and the Jewish people there, but not at the expense of the American people. America needs to stop fueling the conflict by giving so much money to only one side. America should give money to both Israel AND Palestine in order to promote peace, OR America should give money to neither so that they can figure it out for themselves. Here is why I say this...
I'm not asking any of you to be historians...
I am simply asking you to assess the amount of money we are giving to Israel each day, versus the amount of money we give to Palestine (West Bank & Gaza) each day... Then take into account the fact that the unemployment rate and financial wellfare of the American people is at an all-time LOW.
-----------------------------------------------------------
From http://www.ifamericansonlyknew.org/stats/usaid.html
"The U.S. is providing Israel with at least $7.0 million each day* in military aid and is giving the Palestinians $0** in military aid during Fiscal Year 2009."
"Since the October War in 1973, Washington has provided Israel with a level of support dwarfing the amounts provided to any other state. It has been the largest annual recipient of direct U.S. economic and military assistance since 1976 and the largest total recipient since World War ll. Total direct U.S. aid to Israel amounts to well over $140 billion dollars. Israel receives about $3 billion in direct foreign assistance each year, which is roughly one-fifth of America's entire foreign aid budget. In per capita terms, the United States gives each Israeli a direct subsidy worth about $500 per year. This largesse is especially striking when one realizes that Israel is now a wealthy industrial state with a per capita income roughly equal to South Korea or Spain.”
More information and sources of the data: http://www.ifamericansonlyknew.org/stats/usaid.html#source
----------------------------------------------------------
Last thing (a video filmed in Gaza):
i just saw this and it is an AMAZING video. it is made of real footage from inside Gaza. it even talks about how the conflict produces unfairness on both sides, and how foreign protesters are now getting involved with the conflict to try and end it as soon as possible. it blows my mind that America gives so much money to only Israel when so many injustices are committed by BOTH SIDES of the conflict. In my opinion, America needs to stop making the situation worse... because Israelis, Palestinians, AND Americans, are all suffering because of it.
I also recently watched a video which I have been unable to relocate which interviews some very amazing, inspirational Israeli doctors. It seems that there are so many children killed in the attacks on Gaza by the Israeli military, that certain Israeli doctors have stepped up their efforts to try and promote peace and to end the conflict. They are treating the Gaza children who fall victim to Israel's military, and so far, they have treated between 300-500 Gaza children. This information shows how there are some very amazing Israeli people that are doing their best to promote peace and end the conflict, and at the same time, it also shows how lopsided the battle is, since so many, many, many Palestinian children are being killed.
Here are two videos done by Al Jazeera, which are actually biased in support of Israel:
Video#1
Video#2
These videos show how Israel hospitals are trying to promote peace by treating Palestinian children which fall victim to the conflict. There are many very amazing Israeli people who desire peace and wish for the occupation and destruction of homes in Gaza to end.
I think it is obvious that there are wrongs being done on both sides of the battle, but my point here is not blaming one side or the other, my point is: "Why is the American government helping only one side, Israel, with so much money!?" "Why is the pro-Israel lobby in America (AIPAC.org) so POWERFUL?"
I am trying to LEARN about this situation, because I believe it is at the root of the world's problems. It is the MAJOR SOURCE of instability of the world, and the sooner it gets resolved, the sooner the world will achieve Peace, but as long as America is fueling only one side of the argument, it is only going to get worse. I want all the suffering to end, including Americans, Israelis, AND Palestininans, and one of the ways to do this is to bring the public's attention to the situation, which is what I am trying to do by sharing what I learn with everyone.
Peace,
-Abe
--------------------
Abrahm
Spreading Psytrance & Love in the Midwest USA
Expand Your Consciousness.
9/11 Challenge: Explain the Evidence http://pookzta.blogspot.com
|
ScavengerType
bradass87
Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,700
Loc: The North
Last seen: 19 days, 20 hours
|
Re: The Middle East Conflict & Israel's Influence On America *UPDATED 08/16/09* [Re: PookztA]
#10889955 - 08/19/09 01:11 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
it's worthwhile to consider the psychological nature of Israeli soldiers in considdering some of the nature of this conflict. This informative video shows a careful case study that may shed some more light on the subject at hand here.
That said Al Jazeera does tend to be one of the more reliable sources of news in my experience. In 2004/5 they used their status and reputation to poach a few reporters from other news organizations including a prominent reporter of the BBC (who's name escapes me). I haven't seen much of them as of late, likely because the torrent website I usually use for news and documentary material has had trouble finding caps of them.
I know that at the invasion of Iraq (first few months) the US was badmouthing the company, claiming they were affiliated with "the enemy" and whatnot. However I think this might have been because they were reporting on events on the ground as they were, rather than spouting pro-western propiganda.
--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club
|
GI_Luvmoney
Vote Republican!
Registered: 05/10/09
Posts: 939
|
Re: The Middle East Conflict & Israel's Influence On America *UPDATED 08/15/09* [Re: PookztA]
#10891276 - 08/19/09 04:11 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
You just proved you have poor reading comprehension. You lost all credibility.
|
Minstrel
Man of Science
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 1,974
Loc: Hogtown
|
Re: The Middle East Conflict & Israel's Influence On America *UPDATED 08/15/09* [Re: GI_Luvmoney]
#10892792 - 08/19/09 07:45 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
GI_Luvmoney said:
Islamic extremists put Israel in place because they believe that the only guarentee that a Muslim has of going to Heaven is to die in jihad. If Israel didn't exist, they would create another one and another one and another one until the whole world lived under Taliban control or all of the Islamic extremists died. Victory or death are both acceptable to the Islamic extremist (Surah 4:74 Noble Quran).
How did 'Islamic extremists put Israel in place'? Israel (as a modern nation) was born out of the aftermath of WW2, and is largely in place thanks to the victorious allies. It existed long before Islam, back to antiquity before then.
Please clarify.
|
DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 22,782
Loc: Street of Dreams
|
Re: The Middle East Conflict & Israel's Influence On America *UPDATED 08/15/09* [Re: Minstrel]
#10892939 - 08/19/09 07:57 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Israel is in place because it won its war of independence against its five neighboring countries. Good for them. 
|
Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,162
Loc: [life]now[/life]
Last seen: 6 months, 10 days
|
Re: The Middle East Conflict & Israel's Influence On America *UPDATED 08/15/09* [Re: Minstrel]
#10896118 - 08/20/09 07:50 AM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Minstrel said:
Quote:
GI_Luvmoney said:
Islamic extremists put Israel in place because they believe that the only guarentee that a Muslim has of going to Heaven is to die in jihad. If Israel didn't exist, they would create another one and another one and another one until the whole world lived under Taliban control or all of the Islamic extremists died. Victory or death are both acceptable to the Islamic extremist (Surah 4:74 Noble Quran).
How did 'Islamic extremists put Israel in place'? Israel (as a modern nation) was born out of the aftermath of WW2, and is largely in place thanks to the victorious allies. It existed long before Islam, back to antiquity before then.
Please clarify.
Don't feed the troll. It's just the latest reincarnation of Great_Satan.
|
ScavengerType
bradass87
Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,700
Loc: The North
Last seen: 19 days, 20 hours
|
Re: The Middle East Conflict & Israel's Influence On America *UPDATED 08/15/09* [Re: Redstorm]
#10896913 - 08/20/09 10:27 AM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Why are Muslims who kill Israelis called religious extremists but not the other way around?
--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club
|
DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 22,782
Loc: Street of Dreams
|
Re: The Middle East Conflict & Israel's Influence On America *UPDATED 08/15/09* [Re: ScavengerType]
#10896947 - 08/20/09 10:33 AM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Good question. They shouldn't be called extremists because their views are not in the fringe. Its PC talk that inappropriately assumes most mideast muslims want peace because it wouldn't feel good to acknowledge otherwise.
|
ScavengerType
bradass87
Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,700
Loc: The North
Last seen: 19 days, 20 hours
|
Re: The Middle East Conflict & Israel's Influence On America *UPDATED 08/15/09* [Re: DieCommie]
#10897506 - 08/20/09 11:59 AM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Qubit said:
that inappropriately assumes most mideast muslims want peace because it wouldn't feel good to acknowledge otherwise.
Care to elaborate? I assume you mean in Israel in specific, not in general.
--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club
|
GI_Luvmoney
Vote Republican!
Registered: 05/10/09
Posts: 939
|
Re: The Middle East Conflict & Israel's Influence On America *UPDATED 08/15/09* [Re: ScavengerType]
#10897586 - 08/20/09 12:15 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 152,586
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: The Middle East Conflict & Israel's Influence On America *UPDATED 08/15/09* [Re: Minstrel]
#10898395 - 08/20/09 02:25 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Minstrel said:
How did 'Islamic extremists put Israel in place'? Israel (as a modern nation) was born out of the aftermath of WW2, and is largely in place thanks to the victorious allies. It existed long before Islam, back to antiquity before then.
Please clarify.
judaism existed long before islam, god revoked the Israelites right to have a home
--------------------
|
 novumorganum
5B
Registered: 03/03/06
Posts: 17,271
Loc: the city of dis
Last seen: 5 minutes, 19 seconds
|
Re: The Middle East Conflict & Israel's Influence On America [Re: PookztA]
#10898422 - 08/20/09 02:28 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
reading about arab nationalism and the general 3rd world national liberation movements might help to understand the history of the american/Israeli relationship
|
ScavengerType
bradass87
Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 5,700
Loc: The North
Last seen: 19 days, 20 hours
|
Re: The Middle East Conflict & Israel's Influence On America *UPDATED 08/15/09* [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10900557 - 08/20/09 08:04 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Minstrel said:
How did 'Islamic extremists put Israel in place'? Israel (as a modern nation) was born out of the aftermath of WW2, and is largely in place thanks to the victorious allies. It existed long before Islam, back to antiquity before then.
Please clarify.
judaism existed long before islam, god revoked the Israelites right to have a home
That's debatable. I saw a documentary about the origins of Judaism and it stated that the Israelites (then Canaanites I believe) likely copied the monotheism from a group in what would become modern Arabia and the religion modern Islam. It was not nearly as evolved at the time to say it was definitively Islam and it was likely quite different at the time, but the fact remains that the god of the Israealies was a copy of the Abraheamic god of the Muslems who were the first known group to practice this form of monotheism.
--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club
|
DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 22,782
Loc: Street of Dreams
|
Re: The Middle East Conflict & Israel's Influence On America *UPDATED 08/15/09* [Re: ScavengerType]
#10900630 - 08/20/09 08:14 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
debatable? Muhammad lived in the 6th and 7th centuries. Islam is 1400 years old. Its the youngest of all the big 5 religions on the planet.
|
Minstrel
Man of Science
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 1,974
Loc: Hogtown
|
Re: The Middle East Conflict & Israel's Influence On America *UPDATED 08/15/09* [Re: DieCommie]
#10900873 - 08/20/09 08:47 PM (2 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I only noticed now that the graemlin for 'muslim' is 
I lol'd.
| |
|
|
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Phred, Prisoner#1
5,075 topic views. 3 members, 4 guests and 0 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic ]
| | |
|
|
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Shop for: 
Edit 
Reply 
