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InvisibledeCypher
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Power vs. Love and the Gray Magician
    #10617248 - 07/03/09 05:03 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

The great schism between the White Magician and the Black Magician is founded on what each sees as most important: the former Love and the latter Power.  The workers of Light will gladly sacrifice themselves for the sake of others whereas the servants of Darkness would gladly sacrifice others for the sake of themselves.  The White Mage's hands are bounded by the code of morality (An Ye Harm None) and thus he is just as predictable as the Black Mage who remains unalterably addicted to self-gratification.  Both seek happiness; the one in annihilation of all desire and eventual killing of the self, the other in satisfaction of all desire and eventual apotheosis.  The Left Hand Path and the Right Hand Path serve to trace two competing arcs of human evolution; the abasement of the individual in favor of the collective One countered by the Luciferian pride inherent in a human questing for the throne of God.  Too much love sacrifices power for complacency; too much power corrupts and slaughters any mercy.  Where shall the twain meet?  Is a middle path still possible; a path that precisely balances these competing forces?  Would not a magician who treats his self and others with exactly equal priority have no incentive to do anything?  It seems as though any action whatsoever performed by an individual would automatically favor either good over evil or freedom over restriction, and flip-flopping to rectify any asymmetry would leave only a powerless, loveless fool.

Can the Gray Magician exist?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Power vs. Love and the Gray Magician [Re: deCypher]
    #10617423 - 07/03/09 05:51 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Only on a scale from one to ten. :grin:


--------------------
"I don't do drugs. I am drugs. Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic." Dali



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Offlinec0sm0nauttM
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Re: Power vs. Love and the Gray Magician [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #10617728 - 07/03/09 07:07 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

This duality has been the source of many of my dreams. I always get the feeling I need to make a choice between the two. Many of us balance the lines between the paradigm, acting as a the Grey Magician.

I don't think one path is "right". We need the duality for change. This is what the Illuminati believes, they must on one hand do horrible and horrendous things, and on the other hand give millions to charities, etc. The duality brings evolution. Out of this state of flux we become something greater.

In short, the Grey Magician does exist, and in my opinion more so then the Black or White. Either path can be followed, you just need to ask yourself which works for you. What environment do you prefer to be in? Service to self, dog eat dog... or service to others, unity and compassion. Ultimately we are all one, so either way you are serving the one infinite creator.


--------------------
astralsun.blogspot.com
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein



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OfflinejivJaN
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Re: Power vs. Love and the Gray Magician [Re: deCypher]
    #10617909 - 07/03/09 07:50 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I think it can.
The only thing is.. who is ready to give up the dynamics of this battle between the polarities.
I kind of see the gray magician as one of the final steps as the individual , or group finally grows weary of the commotion.

He/she turns to service that is not to others nor to itself , rather serves infinity which represents both.

I would think of it as being boring at the moment... cause like you said every action causes positive and/or negative effects on the whole.

Eventually .. one must turn away from doing and commit to simply being ...
or act only when requested to do so > therefore alleviating any possible karmic backfire - be it positive or negative.

Im sure there is a way which we cannot fully understand yet  as even the lower areas of this new understanding are vague and confusing to a mind in this realm.

I have come to an understanding recently that ambitiously attempting to grasp that which is far beyond us only leaves us more confused >> as we fail to grab the lessons that are staring us in the eye constantly while our ego rejects it foolishly in the pursuit of acquiring knowledge out of our range.

It could even be considered trickery :smile:

But... i would not have come to understand this had i not foolishly listened and went ahead of myself.

So "we"  both have tricks :smile:


Do you see the battle within you ?

Can you be Gray ?

It is simply a paradox we created and choose to be confused by for the sake of the current lesson and the general speed and dynamics of them all.

It instigates progress... otherwise you wouldnt give a shit.

It is in our nature to react when affected.
If we are only affected with love... we wont do much..except sit around and love each other.
Negativity was thus introduced.

"Which is the most universal human characteristic-- fear or laziness?"

:rofl2:


--------------------

---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..


Edited by jivJaN (07/03/09 09:19 PM)


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OfflineChiefGreenLeaf
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Re: Power vs. Love and the Gray Magician [Re: deCypher]
    #10618085 - 07/03/09 08:37 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

I like this thread.

this is actually a question I have been thinking about and the way I see it was already mentioned (maybe?)

I see everything as a service to myself. When I first started exploring past my robotic lifestyle, I was motivated by purely selfish desires. How can I be stronger, fitter, smarter, sexier? You get the picture. What I really wanted was heaven on earth for me. If other people can have it fine, but this was about me. I was (am) on a mission to make my life better. It is not that I wanted to hold out on people, I just didn't think to care at the time.

As I developed myself (or tried to rather) and my consciousness shot up, I started to become more compassionate. I realized that almost every single human wants the exact same thing I do. We want to feel secure, experience pleasure, be powerful, love and be loved, speak and be heard, know truth, and experience something greater then ourselves.
It's pretty straight forward. We go about different ways of achieving this, but we are really all the same animal ya know?

So now, I would still say I'm selfish. This is a strict service to self, but to others it wouldn't appear so. It happened by redefining what I am.

Let me put it this way....
I want to create a perfect society, end suffering, heal the sick, etc. Not because I'm obsessed with helping others, I just see that in the long run all the good deeds will pay ME back. Why wouldn't you want to help create a heaven on earth if you are stuck here for now? By helping others, they will be in  better position to help you. Is this making sense?

To sum it all up.
I realized I am everything, so why wouldn't I want to help myself?
and conversely....
Why would I be mean to myself?
It just doesn't make any sense

So I guess I am the gray magician. I play both roles whenever I see fit. Lately, I see the universe punishes me when I make the wrong decision though. I guess that means I'm on to something.
:awesome:


--------------------
ABSENCE OF EVIDNCE IS NOT EVIDENCE OF ABSENCE
A man said to the universe:
"Sir, I exist!"
"However," replied the universe,
"the fact has not created in me
a sense of obligation."


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InvisibleTibetan
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Re: Power vs. Love and the Gray Magician [Re: deCypher]
    #10620800 - 07/04/09 11:44 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
The workers of Light will gladly sacrifice themselves for the sake of others whereas the servants of Darkness would gladly sacrifice others for the sake of themselves.




The answer is to sacrifice yourself and others. That is why you don't see too many gray magicians around.

I would not sacrifice myself or others. I only defend.


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: Power vs. Love and the Gray Magician [Re: Tibetan]
    #10622776 - 07/04/09 10:09 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

oh woe is me, if only there were some sort of middle path.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_way


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Power vs. Love and the Gray Magician [Re: jivJaN]
    #10622848 - 07/04/09 10:30 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
This duality has been the source of many of my dreams. I always get the feeling I need to make a choice between the two.

Ultimately we are all one, so either way you are serving the one infinite creator.




Likewise, and I completely agree!

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
In short, the Grey Magician does exist, and in my opinion more so then the Black or White.




Perhaps the majority of individuals make no concerted effort to pursue a polarized path, but my overall point is that doing so is not logically consistent.  Either recognize that you seek compassion and happiness for all or recognize that you care not at all; pursuing a middle path involves taking a limited perspective and not realizing that your actions are propelling you towards one of two completely divergent paths.  For instance, you could say that a valid path would be to only care about your friends, your family, and yourself and yet not care about the rest of humanity.  But caring about your friends would mean that you care about their happiness, which probably involves the happiness of their friends and family, and so on in an exponentially increasing network of social relationships.  No matter how hard we try to hide our heads in the sand, it's impossible to deny that we as the human species are growing more and more closely interconnected (the Internet and telecommunication technology is turning the Earth into a global neighborhood), and thus I'd argue we either need to logically have compassion for all or compassion for none.

Quote:

jivJaN said:
He/she turns to service that is not to others nor to itself , rather serves infinity which represents both.




Then he or she would do nothing, no?  This is passive nihilism at its worst.

Quote:

jivJaN said:

Do you see the battle within you ?

Can you be Gray ?




As of late I have been going through some inner turmoil and intense moral debate; I think I am gradually being compelled more and more towards the White than the Black.  :shocked:

Honestly I believe that if you recognize all the evil in the world and yet continue to ignore it to remain on the Gray path then you are just as evil as (if not more than) the Black Magician.

And I am reminded, on this holy day, of the sad story of Kitty Genovese. As you all may remember, a long time ago, almost thirty years ago, this poor soul cried out for help time and time again, but no person answered her calls. Though many saw, no one so much as called the police. They all just watched as Kitty was being stabbed to death in broad daylight. They watched as her assailant walked away. Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Power vs. Love and the Gray Magician [Re: deCypher]
    #10625957 - 07/05/09 04:23 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
As of late I have been going through some inner turmoil and intense moral debate; I think I am gradually being compelled more and more towards the White than the Black.  :shocked:



Equilibrium, my friend, it never fails to succeed. :smirk:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.


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OfflineDiaboleros
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Re: Power vs. Love and the Gray Magician [Re: Poid]
    #10631904 - 07/06/09 05:31 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Cool topic deCypher, also love your signature. The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom, in my experience, it's indeed when  you go extreme you will learn the most. I'm convinced the fastest way of progress and learning is going from one extreme to the opposite extreme. A good everyday example everyone can try right away is switching between an extremely hot and extremely cold shower.    I believe everything is cyclic, therefore, you are forced to go from one extreme to the other, you're forced to hell first before you can go to heaven. If you want to have the best meal in your life, you are forced to starve yourself for a few days first. The key is being able to switch from white to black, not just randomly, but switching in order to fit your purpose.

If you want to help others, you are forced to put yourself on the first place. You need to help yourself first, otherwise, you don't even have the power to help others.    Not harming others is simply impossible, because what you see as white, as good, others may see as black, evil. There is no good without evil, and on top of that, good and evil are relative and interchangeable.


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Invisiblesterbeklang
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Re: Power vs. Love and the Gray Magician [Re: deCypher]
    #10634558 - 07/07/09 07:21 AM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Honestly I believe that if you recognize all the evil in the world and yet continue to ignore it to remain on the Gray path then you are just as evil as (if not more than) the Black Magician.





Gray is the new Black.  But I prefer to spell it "Grey" because it seems more ashen.


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OfflineLysenergy
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Re: Power vs. Love and the Gray Magician [Re: deCypher]
    #10638469 - 07/07/09 08:02 PM (2 years, 10 months ago)

Absolutely it's possible, I am living proof of that. I think there can be a magician for any of the ten colors on the tree of life, just as one can become absorbed in the magick of any one sephirot or deity. It's simply a matter of what your favorite is :smile:.

I identify myself with gray and came to a similar conclusion to what you've describe. The Greak Work is about equilibrium, balancing the polarities. Gray is not just the duality of black and white; if you mix any two opposing colors you will produce gray (got to love alchemy). The dualities of color are.

Black/White
Gray/Brown
Red/Green
Blue/Orange
Purple/Yellow


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OfflineEnvix
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Re: Power vs. Love and the Gray Magician [Re: deCypher]
    #12788377 - 06/22/10 11:46 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

where does Knowledge lay within this quandary?


--------------------
Today is the shadow of tomorrow
Today is the present future of yesterday
Yesterday is the shadow of today
The darkness of the past is yesterday
The light of the past is yesterday


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Offlinehalo
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Re: Power vs. Love and the Gray Magician [Re: Envix]
    #12788416 - 06/22/10 11:57 PM (1 year, 10 months ago)

I saw the title and all I have to say is there doesn't have to be a divide between power and love.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace" -- Jimi Hendrix


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All drugs should be legal


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Onlinedeff
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Re: Power vs. Love and the Gray Magician [Re: halo]
    #12788426 - 06/23/10 12:03 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

yeah, if anything love can become a huge source of motivation for power

working for the welfare of all sentient beings is much more powerful than working for the welfare of one's own ego


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Power vs. Love and the Gray Magician [Re: deff]
    #12788444 - 06/23/10 12:10 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Envix said:
where does Knowledge lay within this quandary?




Presumably Knowledge would help one balance these two competing forces.  Re: Chesed vs. Gevurah in the Tree of Life.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Power vs. Love and the Gray Magician [Re: deCypher]
    #12788575 - 06/23/10 01:12 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Cyph3r said:
The great schism between the White Magician and the Black Magician is founded on what each sees as most important: the former Love and the latter Power.  The workers of Light will gladly sacrifice themselves for the sake of others whereas the servants of Darkness would gladly sacrifice others for the sake of themselves.  The White Mage's hands are bounded by the code of morality (An Ye Harm None) and thus he is just as predictable as the Black Mage who remains unalterably addicted to self-gratification.  Both seek happiness; the one in annihilation of all desire and eventual killing of the self, the other in satisfaction of all desire and eventual apotheosis.  The Left Hand Path and the Right Hand Path serve to trace two competing arcs of human evolution; the abasement of the individual in favor of the collective One countered by the Luciferian pride inherent in a human questing for the throne of God.  Too much love sacrifices power for complacency; too much power corrupts and slaughters any mercy.  Where shall the twain meet?  Is a middle path still possible; a path that precisely balances these competing forces?  Would not a magician who treats his self and others with exactly equal priority have no incentive to do anything?  It seems as though any action whatsoever performed by an individual would automatically favor either good over evil or freedom over restriction, and flip-flopping to rectify any asymmetry would leave only a powerless, loveless fool.

Can the Gray Magician exist?




What if ones works for the welfare of the more promising beings?
Is it really a selfish act to leave amortally wounded soldier and try to save the one who is worth saving? Instead of trying to futilely save them all, while killing yourself?

I like how baulders gate had the alignment set up.





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Re: Power vs. Love and the Gray Magician [Re: teknix]
    #12789776 - 06/23/10 10:05 AM (1 year, 10 months ago)

BG II :raveface:


--------------------
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The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein



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