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 jazzillion
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 The Entheogen Theory of Religion 
#10356692 - 05/18/09 02:01 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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This is very interesting and pretty thorough, so I thought I'd share it with ya'll.
Check it out and post any opinions 
http://www.egodeath.com/EntheogenTheoryOfReligion.htm
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When it rains, it spores 
"Consciousness is the Universe recognizing itself." Once we perceive that everything is conscious we can then ask, "How does consciousness take all these varied forms?" - The Primacy of Consciousness by Peter Russell
All works of poster are of absolute fiction to be used for no other purpose but amusement.
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Noteworthy
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Re: The Entheogen Theory of Religion [Re: jazzillion]
#10357024 - 05/18/09 04:12 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Some of those ideas sound pretty cool.. but unfortunately, they keep referring to every example of a cup with liquid in it as a 'psychedelic wine' and I cant see any evidence to think this in most of the cases.
The main reason I am skeptical about these theories is that it is always an ambiguous drink or herbal mixture that is involved.. never EVER mushrooms
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NoBrainNoPain
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Re: The Entheogen Theory of Religion [Re: Noteworthy]
#10357492 - 05/18/09 08:07 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Noteworthy said:
Some of those ideas sound pretty cool.. but unfortunately, they keep referring to every example of a cup with liquid in it as a 'psychedelic wine' and I cant see any evidence to think this in most of the cases.
The main reason I am skeptical about these theories is that it is always an ambiguous drink or herbal mixture that is involved.. never EVER mushrooms
Shroom tea...?
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 daytripper23
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Re: The Entheogen Theory of Religion [Re: NoBrainNoPain]
#10357918 - 05/18/09 10:32 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Link doesn't work for me.
But I am aware of the theory.Quote:
Noteworthy said:
Some of those ideas sound pretty cool.. but unfortunately, they keep referring to every example of a cup with liquid in it as a 'psychedelic wine' and I cant see any evidence to think this in most of the cases.
Good point, this is where it gets interesting.
Ever heard of Nietzsche's Transvaluation of values?:
"Elaborating the concept in The Antichrist, Nietzsche asserts that Christianity, not merely as a religion but also as the predominant moral system of the western world, in fact inverts nature, and is "hostile to life". As "the religion of pity", Christianity elevates the weak over the strong, exalting that which is "ill-constituted and weak" at the expense of that which is full of life and vitality."
I am still familiarizing with this concept but it is striking how Nietzsche's philosophy would reflect a similar inversion in the actual sacrament itself; in other words, to any sensible mind, as a focus on the substance itself: a psychedelic as original sacrament vs. the so called "sacrament" of bread and wine.
Terrence Mckenna also describes a historical inversion/transition as fundamental to his theories, but precisely in these terms of substance, in how humans progressed from the entheogenic sacraments, or the bare communion with nature, to a formalized sacrament that has become the catholic communion with God. From the effective potency of entheogens, to that empty catholic fetish of wine and bread, a ritual of weak substance.
The absurdity of our age is in having to reclaim "nature" to precede "God", as did Nietzsche. A direct lineage explains the most significant taboos and profundities of our transvaluations, from the profound to profane, but how would this reflect the ritual of transubstantiation, the heart of this beast?
Absurdly, it has become almost entirely alien to suggest that sacrament could, let alone should be potent in itself. It is my understanding that this profound corruption is what suggests Nietzsche's transvaluation (or vise versa). We can assume at least, that he was well aware of the ordinary notion of transubstantiation, and termed his transvaluation as the critical response to that.
So while Nietzsche was adept at explaining the roots and significance of our ideological moralities, how much attention did he pay to the rituals and sacraments themselves? What explains the strange fetishes apparent in these rituals, to "eat this bread and drink this wine?" Why shouldn't we find a natural root to that as well?
There are many subtleties that need to be worked out, given that Nietzsche was probably not referring to any "positive" psychedelic sacrament. Yet it is worth noting that Nietzsche did have at a strong inclination for original sentiment, which he notably saw in the Ancient Greek pagan mythos and referred to in many of his writings, such as the Dionysian Aesthetic.
But specifically to the point, of Nietzsche's "will to power", isn't this a testament to the fundamentally naturalistic potency of existence, of life in its bare communion with nature, whatever one might make of it?
"“The world itself is the will to power - and nothing else! And you yourself are the will to power - and nothing else!”"
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Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!
Edited by daytripper23 (05/18/09 10:16 PM)
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Noteworthy
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Re: The Entheogen Theory of Religion [Re: NoBrainNoPain]
#10362289 - 05/19/09 01:00 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
NoBrainNoPain said:
Quote:
Noteworthy said:
Some of those ideas sound pretty cool.. but unfortunately, they keep referring to every example of a cup with liquid in it as a 'psychedelic wine' and I cant see any evidence to think this in most of the cases.
The main reason I am skeptical about these theories is that it is always an ambiguous drink or herbal mixture that is involved.. never EVER mushrooms
Shroom tea...?
What about it?
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Noteworthy
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Re: The Entheogen Theory of Religion [Re: Noteworthy]
#10362299 - 05/19/09 01:05 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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ps. day-tripper, I appreciate N's views on christianity but nothin you wrote helped suggest to me that sacrements in middle east were psychedelic.
I can imagine that it is possible that all the shrooms were eaten and all records of their use and preparation destroyed.
But I dont believe it.
Its really hard to find sources that discuss the prevalence of psychedelic mushrooms in the middle east.
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NoBrainNoPain
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Re: The Entheogen Theory of Religion [Re: jazzillion]
#10362339 - 05/19/09 01:17 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Sorry...
I was implying that the "ambiguous drink or herbal mixture" could have been some shroom decoction.
"Plant" is a term used in the past to describe anything that grows, so all the potions, "herbal wine" etc described in the so-called sacred texts might have been shroom tea.
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NoBrainNoPain
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Re: The Entheogen Theory of Religion [Re: Noteworthy]
#10362351 - 05/19/09 01:23 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Heinrich (http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Mushrooms-Religion-Alchemy-Heinrich/dp/0892819979) makes lots of interesting relations with shrooms, mainly amanita muscaria, and history of religions.
Some very plausible theories, some more "esoteric" and a bit out of range, but if you read it with a little circonspection, it is a nice point of view.
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I would love a woodlover's print… PM If you have one and want to trade
Edited by NoBrainNoPain (05/19/09 08:05 AM)
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Noteworthy
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Re: The Entheogen Theory of Religion [Re: NoBrainNoPain]
#10362856 - 05/19/09 05:34 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yeah I know that they 'might' be shroom drinks, the point is that nowhere does it say they are mushroom, but more specifically, no where does it say anything about mushroom at all. There is something very significantly different about mushroom compared to other plants and there would be at least one mention of a mushroom if people really were getting high
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c0sm0nautt
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Re: The Entheogen Theory of Religion [Re: Noteworthy]
#10363197 - 05/19/09 07:49 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Can you repair that link, seems like a interesting read.
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NoBrainNoPain
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Re: The Entheogen Theory of Religion [Re: Noteworthy]
#10363277 - 05/19/09 08:11 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Noteworthy said:
nowhere does it say they are mushroom
mmh... I see what you mean.
On the other hand, nowhere does it say they are not mushrooms 
Some scholars elude the problem saying that the priests want to keep their recipes secret, to have power on people.
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I would love a woodlover's print… PM If you have one and want to trade
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daytripper23
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Re: The Entheogen Theory of Religion [Re: Noteworthy]
#10363378 - 05/19/09 08:43 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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I may have misunderstood your post.
I suppose where my post stands, is for those speculative few who have in a certain sense, already made this connection, and that's what I took you for. Let me explain that:
The assertion is that there is only one kind of sacrament, and that is "potent" one, and that sacrament is the heart of "religious" ceremony.
But in that sense, I would say my speculation is based more upon an extreme "skepticism" of Christianity, than it is to plainly posit such an assertion. I would say am filling in the blanks of potency (albeit conveniently, although this positive assertion cannot be avoided), not only to their ressentiments of ideology (as the "will to power"), but specifically towards their actual rituals.
To me, in exact reflection of their ideology, their ritual seems to only make sense as a contrived corruption, a sublimation, and a stifling of an original sentiment, than something "in itself".
Nietzsche described how we somehow managed to have "forgotten" the potency of the "will to power", the one and only natural impulse, in favor of ressentiment. He says there is one way to live and that is the potency of the will to power. My response to that is to study the ritual itself, the physical heart of this religion, that there is only ONE kind of ritual and that is also a potent one.
My emphasis, I hope you can see, is more of the impotency of catholic ritual and ideology than it is filling in this blank. So no, I cannot substantiate this in any way other than to emphasize the "why and how" of this process as a whole.
By that, I am just describing a flux of potency, and my speculation is that this potency simply and clearly spells entheogen (just like in the ideological realm, it spells the will to power). What else, than what by definition induces mystical experience? (what else than the will to power to live, carpe diem)
Now do not mistake me for claiming ultimate truths of reality or this experience. Like the will to power, it is all about what YOU make of this experience. Again, what I am most emphasizing is the strange lack of a better word.
Following the language, if we were to be straight forward, sentimental rather than "ressentimental" (subliming, corrupting, etc) we would simply say that "sacrament is entheogenic". Is this so far fetched? Is there any alternative expression, any other word that fits a straight forward sentiment?
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Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!
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Dyingjezuz
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Re: The Entheogen Theory of Religion [Re: daytripper23]
#10413468 - 05/28/09 01:21 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Drugs have the same impact on the individual user as it does to society as a whole; they've been known for thousends of years and have always been absolutely aweinspiring, that should make you able to put the rest of the pieces together imo 
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