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 mushroomhunter10
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 Is cyanofriscosa now called cyanofriscana?? 
#10058640 - 03/28/09 05:26 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Is cyanofriscosa now called cyanofriscana??
Just curious.
Thanks
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libertaire
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I didn't hear anything about this. I like friscosa better. Friscana sounds more like an orange juice or something. Can anyone confirm this change? Even if it's definite, I'm still calling it friscosa.
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 HerbBaker
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Yes, according to sporeworks.
The name “P. cyanofranciscana” is provisional and probably won’t be retained upon publication in a scientific journal.
P. cyanofriscosa is improper latin
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mushroomhunter10
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 Re: Is cyanofriscosa now called cyanofriscana?? [Re: HerbBaker]
#10058727 - 03/28/09 06:15 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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If one won't be retained, and one isn't proper Latin then what will it be named?!?!
Who discovered this species?
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HerbBaker
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John Allen claims he was the first to find it, it may be renamed Psilocybe allenii by Guzman according to MJ.
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mushroomhunter10
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Re: Is cyanofriscosa now called cyanofriscana?? [Re: HerbBaker]
#10058733 - 03/28/09 06:18 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Interesting.
I wonder when this will occur. I guess somebody will post the change in this forum then.
Thanks warriorsoul!
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libertaire
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Re: Is cyanofriscosa now called cyanofriscana?? [Re: HerbBaker]
#10058736 - 03/28/09 06:19 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Screw all this nonsense, lol. If it has a good name that people know, why change it?
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mushroomhunter10
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Re: Is cyanofriscosa now called cyanofriscana?? [Re: libertaire]
#10058794 - 03/28/09 06:52 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah no kidding... It should just be decided upon by the finder. I guess the Latin should be proper but the common name should be up to the discoverer.
What is the common name? Does it have one yet?
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libertaire
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The only common name I've heard of is the cyclone mushroom, because of stamets experiments on agar which produces cylone mycelium. However, this trait has not been replicated, at least as far as I know.
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mushroomhunter10
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Re: Is cyanofriscosa now called cyanofriscana?? [Re: libertaire]
#10058809 - 03/28/09 06:59 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Oh yeah. I remember reading cyclone somewhere.
Thanks libertaire.
I wonder if anybody has done breeding experiments on this species with Ps. cyanescens, azurescens, or other similar wood-lovers. Perhaps even Psilocybe subaeruginosa. Can anybody confirm if there have been breeding experiments on this one?
Hey warriorsoul: By MJ do you mean "mjshroomer"? Does have another ID here or something?
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libertaire
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I'm curious about the breeding experiments also. I'm curious if it would be possible to create a new species, similar to mixing two strains of cubensis, since the genetics of friscosa and cyan/azurescens are likely very close, being woodlovers with very similar overall traits.
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rizingfire
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Re: Is cyanofriscosa now called cyanofriscana?? [Re: libertaire]
#10058827 - 03/28/09 07:08 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Those are an awesome shroom, whatever they call it....Its like a Psil Cyan that fruits in warmer temps....I can't wait to give em a shot...My psil cyans ended up getting baccilus... Seems stupid to change the name now...who cares about the latin...
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HerbBaker
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Re: Is cyanofriscosa now called cyanofriscana?? [Re: libertaire]
#10058834 - 03/28/09 07:10 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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If they mated you wouldn't be creating a new species, this would only prove they are they are both the same species to begin with.
MJ=mjshroomer=john allen
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libertaire
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Re: Is cyanofriscosa now called cyanofriscana?? [Re: HerbBaker]
#10058850 - 03/28/09 07:13 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ah, shows how much I know about genetics, haha. So it's impossible for two species to mate? Will the monokaryotic hyphae of one species just not connect with that of another?
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mushroomhunter10
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Re: Is cyanofriscosa now called cyanofriscana?? [Re: HerbBaker]
#10058857 - 03/28/09 07:17 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah I think he meant a new strain.
Isn't John known to be very eccentric though? If that's the case, could this be a hoax? Could they just be a strain of cyanescens that he's propagated everywhere to get some recognition? I don't know the guy, but from reading his old posts he seems very, not sure what to call it. I read that he claims that Ps. cyanescens are more potent than azurescens.
I'm not sure where he got that information either. To me it seems like he was out to prove something. That's just me though and I don't know him personally but that sort of claim is what got him banned due to his eccentricities, isn't it?
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mushroomhunter10
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Re: Is cyanofriscosa now called cyanofriscana?? [Re: libertaire]
#10058867 - 03/28/09 07:19 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
libertaire said:
Ah, shows how much I know about genetics, haha. So it's impossible for two species to mate? Will the monokaryotic hyphae of one species just not connect with that of another?
Actually it's not impossible for two species to mate. IE Donkey + Horse = Mule, or is it Mule + Horse = Donkey?? Either way, the two species can mate, however their offspring cannot reproduce. I'm not sure that fungi are the same, but regarding species in general different ones can mate but the offspring are sterile.
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libertaire
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Aha. Thus the rumor that PE is really a cross of azures and cubes, and if true why they are extremely difficult to put out spores. Interesting.
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mushroomhunter10
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Re: Is cyanofriscosa now called cyanofriscana?? [Re: libertaire]
#10058899 - 03/28/09 07:31 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm pretty certain that PE was discovered way before azurescens though. I think it's from South America. The spores made by PE can be cultivated too. I think the spores are harder to get because of the way the cap is shaped. The gills are barely exposed. I would definitely love to get my hands on some PE though! I hear they are really potent and the adage of "A cube is a cube." does not fit this species. Not sure about PE Uncut though.
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auweia
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Re: Is cyanofriscosa now called cyanofriscana?? [Re: libertaire]
#10058926 - 03/28/09 07:43 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't think anybody's been propagating it other than growing and transplants. There's probably a number of strains out there, but I still think it's really just part of p cyanesescens and it's just adapted and gotten bigger
I mean, for many years people have been unable to separate friscosa from cyanescens by spores and microscope. Many strains are just too close. But some strains might be arguable for a new species. It's possible some people have taken certain strains that are different enough and trying to grow those, but I'm pretty sure that most of the strains out there are awfully close to p cyanescens, microscopically
Friscosa is fine with me. As long as people know what it looks like, it doesn't really matter
These are some of the same speciemens checked out by Peter Werner at the MSSF in 2006. He went out there and got some himself and yep, it was pretty much a perfect match for p cyanescens under the microscope. He said so in another forum here. They can also grow among proper cyanescens patches too, so it will always be nearly impossible to seperate at least some strains
and one note about John Allen, I once sent him two samples, one of these 'friscosas'. and another of p subaeruginascens. He sent them off to Europe to Jochen Gaertz, and apparently that was the last sample he was allowed to examine because the German government has imposed new rules or something and can't get samples any more :P
Anyway, there was some kind of mix up, but there were still only two possibilities with this. According to Gaertz, one of the samples was positively ID as 'p cyanescens' and the other was probably a new unknown species.
Except I didn't send p cyanescens. I only sent 'friscosa' and 'subaeruginascens'
I have no idea if Allen is basing his paper on that, or what he found last year in Washington. Allen doesn't live in the Bay Area so he has to rely on other people for this, um, unique Bay Area species. Of course, it's possible these friscosas could now be growing in Washington, but since it came to light in 2001, it's always been known to only happen around San Francisco
Also, for many years, Allen kept insisting that these friscosas were in fact p cyanofibbrilosa. He said so repeatedly in these forums based on photos we here in the Bay Area posted, including this exact same photo in this post
Now all of a sudden after 6 years of insisting that these friscosas were really cyanofibrillosa, Allen suddenly finds a new species in Washington that looks very similar to friscosa
Well, that doesn't bother me anymore. Like I said, as long as people know what they look like, it doesn't matter what you call it. Nomenclature disputes can get downright silly at times, and what's likely to happen is when papers get published on these 'friscosas' some peers are going to show up to dispute it
and it's likely to go on like that for a very long time
Edited by auweia (03/28/09 08:05 AM)
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libertaire
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Re: Is cyanofriscosa now called cyanofriscana?? [Re: auweia]
#10058965 - 03/28/09 07:51 AM (3 years, 1 month ago) |
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So if there's no real microscopic differences, what makes it a different species? Wouldn't it just be a different strain, i.e. cyanescens var. friscosa/cyclone/whatever?
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