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 Arden
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Registered: 09/01/08
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 Attempting Closet Cider
#9347747 - 12/01/08 09:42 PM (1 day, 30 minutes ago) |
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After reading a few basic teks, I figured that I would try my hand at cider. Hopefully I will eventually learn to manipulate the end result, but for the time being, a crude alcoholic beverage will suffice.
I pitched the yeast exactly one week ago.
One "regular" juice variety, and one "organic" juice variety.
Interestingly, the organic juice became active much faster and continues to appear more like a yeast party.
I put approximately a teaspoon of yeast per gallon.
If I want a higher gravity, when should I add additional sugar (if at all)?
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 Brainiac
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 Re: Attempting Closet Cider [Re: Arden]
#9348101 - 12/01/08 10:27 PM (23 hours, 46 minutes ago) |
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Could it be warmer ? It looks fine...
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 AKSE
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Re: Attempting Closet Cider [Re: Brainiac]
#9348397 - 12/01/08 11:14 PM (22 hours, 58 minutes ago) |
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I just got done with this same experiment a few months ago. It turns out winier than you would expect (which may be a good or bad thing?). After it is done fermenting, (If your not going to already) I would put it into a secondary container leaving as much yeast as you can behind. In my experience the resulting cider-immediatly after fermentation stops, is very yeasty, and almost beery-smelling and tasting... I would let your secondary container sit for another few weeks atleast so that more yeast can drop out over time. The longer it sets the more yeast that drops to the bottom, the less 'yeasty' it tastes, and the better more fruitier flavors are exposed. What kind of yeast are you using? I used champagne yeast.
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monkeybus
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Re: Attempting Closet Cider [Re: AKSE]
#9349467 - 12/02/08 05:20 AM (16 hours, 53 minutes ago) |
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Filter it through a coffee filter and you'll be surprised how pleasant it tastes.
Yes, yes, I know, oxidisation, bad for the wine, etc.
But if you want a quick, nice tasting alcoholic drink, just filter it now, and glug it back. I do.
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Arden
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Re: Attempting Closet Cider [Re: monkeybus]
#9349678 - 12/02/08 07:09 AM (15 hours, 3 minutes ago) |
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I bought the yeast from a brewing company. The overzealous employee informed me that American Ale yeast would be best for my cider, so that's what I'm using.
As for temps, it is at room temperature now with basically zero fluctuation.
I may end up trying the coffee filter method for one gallon, and secondary fermentation container for the other one. I just want to make sure I have a bit for the holidays.
What signs indicate that fermentation is complete? Any suggestions about the sugar?
Thanks.
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Holydiver
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Re: Attempting Closet Cider [Re: Arden]
#9349807 - 12/02/08 07:59 AM (14 hours, 14 minutes ago) |
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Quote:
Arden said:
Any suggestions about the sugar?
Table sugar, brown sugar, or any combo thereof--added before fermentation. The cleanest fermenting sugar is dextrose, though. Clean, meaning the cleanest final product. I wouldn't worry about using dextrose for what you are doing, it's a bit more pricey and you are just experimenting. 1 + 1/3 cup of any of these, per 1 gallon juice will put you approx. in the 7-8% abv range. As is with no sugar, you might get 4-5% abv.
Check out this thread when you are ready to make some clean, crisp delicious german cider...very simple but requires dextrose and a specific yeast for those mentioned reasons.
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Arden
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Re: Attempting Closet Cider [Re: Holydiver]
#9350381 - 12/02/08 10:26 AM (11 hours, 46 minutes ago) |
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Thanks, Holydiver. I bookmarked your thread.
So adding sugar during/after fermentation is not recommended?
A couple more noobish questions:
I've noticed a lot of sediment collecting at the bottom of the container. When fermentation is done, should I decant the liquid to avoid all this matter from entering the bottles?
The carbon dioxide bubbles have slowed down significantly and yet it has only been a week. Normal?
I know this varies, but average time to completion?
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NubeEnLaMontana
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Re: Attempting Closet Cider [Re: Arden]
#9350625 - 12/02/08 11:09 AM (11 hours, 3 minutes ago) |
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I've never used beer yeast before (winemaker) but in a week at room temperature it wouldn't be surprising to see the fermentation mostly complete, which is why you're seeing the bubbles slow down. It will continue slowly for a while longer (could be a week or a month) before the yeast has consumed all the sugar.
If it were my cider, and I wasn't in a hurry to drink it, I would wait until the fermentation had slowed down a little further, then decant or siphon into a clean gallon jug. Then I'd top it up with unfermented apple juice to have a full gallon. This would restart the fermentation, but you would already have eliminated most of the sediment during the first racking. Another option would be to top it up with some white wine, which wouldn't get the fermentation going again but would still eliminate the air space in the top of the jug. Either way I'd let it settle for a while in the second jug before bottling. If you're not planning to hold onto it very long before drinking, the air space doesn't matter... but cider likes to go to vinegar, and anything with a low alcohol content is gonna have a better chance of spoilage with access to lots of air.
Oh, and I've never had a problem adding sugar during a fermentation. Once the fermentation is over, it should still work but might take some babying or even an addition of more yeast. That would probably only be an issue if you're near the alcohol tolerance of your yeast. If you add sugar, it's likely to need more time to mellow and integrate before it's at it's best. But if you want to bring the alcohol content up, that's the way to do it.
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Holydiver
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Re: Attempting Closet Cider [Re: Arden]
#9350755 - 12/02/08 11:34 AM (10 hours, 38 minutes ago) |
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Adding sugar later is just dragging out fermentation. Add it all at the beginning (dissolved well) and let it ferment out in one step. What are your temps? Cider at 58F can take months to finish. At 68F+ it can finish in 2-3 weeks. Add another couple weeks to clear up.
If the bubbles have completely stopped, it's probably fermented out. Especially since you didn't add any extra sugar, there is less there to ferment--it will finish faster.
As for the sediment eventually the yeast will drop out and pile at the bottom. even when your cider looks clear, there are still millions of yeast floating around. Only through crash cooling in a fridge, or aging for a long time will you get the yeast to completely drop out.. if you are bottle carbonating, you don't want the yeast to completely drop out.
thats what the tip on a racking cane is for, to keep you from sucking sludge out.
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NubeEnLaMontana
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Re: Attempting Closet Cider [Re: Holydiver]
#9350899 - 12/02/08 12:02 PM (10 hours, 10 minutes ago) |
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It WILL drag out the fermentation, but if OP has already started fermenting, it's the only way he's gonna boost the alcohol. On the other hand, a gallon of that juice can't cost too much... OP should just buy another gallon and add the sugar right off the bat. You can never have too much homemade booze (unless the feds come sniffing around).
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Arden
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I was researching "racking cane", and came across this helpful wiki for newbies:
"Lees refers to deposits of dead yeast or residual yeast and other particles that precipitate, or are carried by the action of "fining", to the bottom of a vat of wine after fermentation and aging. The yeast deposits in beer brewing are known as trub. However, yeast deposits from secondary fermentation of beer are referred to as lees.
Normally the wine is transferred to another container (racking), leaving this sediment behind. Some wines, (notably Muscadet and Rémy Martin), are sometimes aged for a time on the lees (a process known as sur lie), leading to a distinctive yeasty aroma and taste. The lees may be stirred (batonnage in French) in order to promote uptake of the lees character."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lees_(fermentation)
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daussaulit
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Re: Attempting Closet Cider [Re: Arden]
#9352574 - 12/02/08 05:32 PM (4 hours, 40 minutes ago) |
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Wow, a lot of posts. I'll see what I can answer.
If you want higher gravity you can add additional sugar during fermentation if you want to. You can prolong fermentation as long as you include yeast nutrient, and while the fermentation is going strong. You don't want to add sugar after the fermentation has slowed down. For really high gravity beverages, it is actually recommended that you add the sugar during the course of several doses, definitely within the 1st 24 hours of fermentation and within 18-24 hours of the previous dosing. Recommended rate is no more than 4oz(by weight)/gallon. Remember yeast nutrient.
If you want to filter the cider, please don't use a coffee filter. Rack into a secondary container to get it off the yeast to prevent autolysis. From there if you want to clarify the beer, you can use gelatin in a pinch. Please do that instead. If you are willing to go to the homebrew store, you can get some isinglass for better clarification.
As far as using regular sugar, it will cause the yeast to produce some fusels causing a vinous taste to the cider. This vinous taste can be reduced by boiling the sugar with some water and some acid(ie lemon juice and you don't much) to invert the sugar.
If you want to know if fermentation has stopped, you need gravity readings with a hydrometer or refractometer. Two days of the same readings and fermentation is done. You could gauge by looking at the activity in the airlock, but it's not very accurate.
Yeast will settle eventually, but how quickly it does so depends on how flocculant the strain is. You said that you just bought some yeast from a brewing company(and generally, nearly all the breweries I have been to will give it to you for free provided you give them enough notice, and that you supply a sanitized container for said yeast). American ale could be a wide number of things, some flocculant, and some not so flocculant.
Anyways, that's all I got for now.
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