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poke smot!
cognitive consonance




Registered: 01/08/03
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Court allows search and seizure in Virginia case
#8326654 - 04/25/08 11:23 AM (7 months, 3 days ago) |
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http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jloUQDq8P-iiT6iMWYzQ708nQQqAD907RIJO0
Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — The Supreme Court affirmed Wednesday that police have the power to conduct searches and seize evidence, even when done during an arrest that turns out to have violated state law.
The unanimous decision comes in a case from Portsmouth, Va., where city detectives seized crack cocaine from a motorist after arresting him for a traffic ticket offense.
David Lee Moore was pulled over for driving on a suspended license. The violation is a minor crime in Virginia and calls for police to issue a court summons and let the driver go.
Instead, city detectives arrested Moore and prosecutors say that drugs taken from him in a subsequent search can be used against him as evidence.
"We reaffirm against a novel challenge what we have signaled for half a century," Justice Antonin Scalia wrote.
Scalia said that when officers have probable cause to believe a person has committed a crime in their presence, the Fourth Amendment permits them to make an arrest and to search the suspect in order to safeguard evidence and ensure their own safety.
Moore was convicted on a drug charge and sentenced to 3 1/2 years in prison.
The Virginia Supreme Court ruled that police should have released Moore and could not lawfully conduct a search.
State law, said the Virginia Supreme Court, restricted officers to issuing a ticket in exchange for a promise to appear later in court. Virginia courts dismissed the indictment against Moore.
Moore argued that the Fourth Amendment permits a search only following a lawful state arrest.
In a concurring opinion, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said she finds more support for Moore's position in previous court cases than the rest of the court does. But she said she agrees that the arrest and search of Moore was constitutional, even though it violated Virginia law.
The Bush administration and attorneys general from 18 states lined up in support of Virginia prosecutors.
The federal government said Moore's case had the potential to greatly increase the class of unconstitutional arrests, resulting in evidence seized during searches being excluded with increasing frequency.
Looking to state laws to provide the basis for searches would introduce uncertainty into the legal system, the 18 states said in court papers.
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Ojom
member




Registered: 10/27/99
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Re: Court allows search and seizure in Virginia case [Re: poke smot!]
#8335592 - 04/27/08 08:46 PM (7 months, 20 hours ago) |
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Sounds to me like the Supreme court just said state law doesn't matter. Which, to some degree, I believe is correct in regards to the supreme court. What I don't understand, is why the court agreed to hear this case. They should not have had any reason to hear this case at it seems entirely clear that this was a matter of state law, and that state law was clear on the matter, and that the state law itself was not unconstitutional. So what was their basis for taking this case?
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 6,961
Loc: Americas
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Re: Court allows search and seizure in Virginia case [Re: Ojom]
#8335627 - 04/27/08 08:54 PM (7 months, 20 hours ago) |
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I didn't look at it, but I'm sure its cuz they reviewed a fed. const. ruling. State courts are not allowed deference for their interpretation of fed. const. law., only for state law/const.
So quite literally, they could have simply ruled that the state constitution prohibited it, even if the wording was exactly the same as the fed. const. in ever way, and it wouldn't have been reviewable at all. I guess they could still do that on remand though, but who knows.
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danknugz81
spiralingdownward



Registered: 02/22/08
Posts: 773
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Re: Court allows search and seizure in Virginia case [Re: johnm214]
#8354196 - 05/02/08 03:22 PM (6 months, 27 days ago) |
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state laws dont matter, and the constitution doesnt matter either.
allegedly, bush said it himself "stop throwing the constitution in my face... it's just a goddamned piece of paper"
its also the goddamned piece of paper that gives this son of a bitch his power. time and time again, the bush administration has proven that the constitution only matter when it justifies their cause. if it doesnt fit into their reasoning than it's "supporting terror."
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Court allows search and seizure in Virginia case [Re: danknugz81]
#8354255 - 05/02/08 03:42 PM (6 months, 27 days ago) |
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> its also the goddamned piece of paper that gives this son of a bitch his power.
Wrong. God, and only God give 'this son of a bitch' his power. He said so himself, more or less.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 6,961
Loc: Americas
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Re: Court allows search and seizure in Virginia case [Re: danknugz81]
#8355071 - 05/02/08 06:59 PM (6 months, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
danknugz81 said: state laws dont matter, and the constitution doesnt matter either.
allegedly, bush said it himself "stop throwing the constitution in my face... it's just a goddamned piece of paper"
its also the goddamned piece of paper that gives this son of a bitch his power. time and time again, the bush administration has proven that the constitution only matter when it justifies their cause. if it doesnt fit into their reasoning than it's "supporting terror."
yes they do, if the state court had concluded the evidence was suppresable under state law, the supreme court wouldn't have taken the case.
And this ruling isn't all that shocking. It comes down to the fact that the arrest didn't violate the constitution, it only violated the statute. I think that makes it a violation of due process/unreasonable seizure itself, but under court precedent its not. So the fact that the offense wasn't arrestable under state law doesn't really matter.
There's a big misconception that the exclusionary rule applies to illegally obtained evidence, which isn't true, it applies to unconstitutionally gained evidence.
This is yet another reason why we need private rights of action within all laws, cuz they're not self enforcing.
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spock1
Stranger

Registered: 04/14/07
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Re: Court allows search and seizure in Virginia case *DELETED* [Re: poke smot!]
#8378494 - 05/08/08 05:22 PM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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Post deleted by spock1Reason for deletion: .
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 6,961
Loc: Americas
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Re: Court allows search and seizure in Virginia case [Re: spock1]
#8378924 - 05/08/08 07:09 PM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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Liberals and conservatives both want all these bullshit laws, but they don't provide private right to bring suit to enfroce them, so they go unenforced.
Say there's a law that you can't search person x. So the police search them, and what can you do? Absolutly nothing, cuz the law doesn't allow for a collateral attack on the conviction or for damages. Completely worthless.
Say there's a law that a buisness must not lie in selling you items, like claiming they have feature x, when you figure out they lie what can you do? Nothing pursuant to that law if it doesn't provide for private standing to sue.
Its worse though, cuz alot of the liberals want all these laws, but then the laws take rights away from the people via federal premption.
Like generally you could sue if your food was processed a certain way and that hurt you, however; the FDA has allowed many forms of processing and barred the states from enforcing contrary laws. So in effect you lose common law and statutory rights by statutes that liberals want to protect us.
Laws are worthless without an enforcement mechanism. And laws protecting the poeple should neccesarily provide a right of the people to enforce it. Otherwise it just say "The police, for example, can't search people, but only the state can determine whether or not to enforce this law." You think the state will enforce the law against there own interests?
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spock1
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Registered: 04/14/07
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Re: Court allows search and seizure in Virginia case *DELETED* [Re: johnm214]
#8378963 - 05/08/08 07:23 PM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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Post deleted by spock1Reason for deletion: .
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 6,961
Loc: Americas
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Re: Court allows search and seizure in Virginia case [Re: spock1]
#8379262 - 05/08/08 08:21 PM (6 months, 20 days ago) |
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Not in america, generally. Prosecutors have lots of discretion as to what to prosecute.
But you miss the point, its not even a crime to violate the law per se. Many of these states have no provisions for enforcement, so the state couldn't do much even if they wanted to, except maybe get an order or something.
So you've got a situation where you can't do anything, and the state can't do anything. Even in the best case scenario its only the state that can go after the person, so if they don't wish to protect your rights, there's nothing going to happe. This is how it is w/ alot of EPA regulations, FDA regs, and some parts of the Fair Debt Collection Act.
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