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 OddEye
Lord of the kings
Registered: 10/08/04
Posts: 145
Last seen: 3 hours, 39 minutes
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 The odd's guide to online poker!
#8195824 - 03/26/08 09:53 AM (7 months, 23 days ago) |
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PS. Not sure where to post, either money matters or here, please enlighten me!
Also plz give me a good rating if you like XD
1. Introduction
I'm a 21 years old boy who played Starcraft/Warcraft 3 competitively during my youth, most result came from W3 (ranked 40 solo and 1 AT during ROCs - ZioN[bzAr] on east) which is weird because I played starcraft a whole lot more. I am currently working at the Ministery of revenu of Québec for my intership as a programmer/analyst. However this is all a facade, as my real source of revenu is online poker! I am a regular from mid-stakes to high-stakes (2/4 to 10/25 - very occasionally) on Ultimate Bet. One reason I am pointing out my background as an RTS player is that I came to know other Starcraft players who pulled very good results and got me motivated. The road was long and hard and I couldn't really believe I would pull something off this at first, everytime I would lose I would cry to luck - still do :P (I was probably right quite a few times, but you need to forget luck in order to focus on skill). By now I have made just a little over 75k$, however this is nothing compared to some high stakes player who can pull much more than 75k$ per month, in fact I have just seen the sickest graph ever from Stinger who made over one million just in march.
2. Position
UTG = Under the gun, first to talk.
HI = Hijack seat or middle position, 2nd to talk after UTG.
CO = Cut off, considered late position, 3rd to talk preflop, but 2nd last to talk post flop.
DEAL = Dealer, best position in the game, last to talk post flop is a very strong advantage.
SB = Small blind, I see so many mistakes from that position. You should fold a lot of hands from there, you are the first to talk postflop. It will put you in hard position most of the times vs good players, very hard to outplay them out of position unless you have very strong reads(which u probably don't have if your reading this guide in the first place).
BB = Big blind, I usually play rather aggressive if raised by regulars from CO/DEAL, but it is almost always a fold/raise situation. You are out of position, you either want your opponent to fold preflop to not have to play with post flop disadvantage or to have a big pot making him hard to catch lucky hands post flop. If you think your opponent is ignorant about position then do not abuse this because he will probably have strong hands, however a regular would raise CO/Dealer very often because of the positional advantage. The last paragraph also applys to the small blind, however when you are small blind you still have to worry about the big blind (only if you think he is aware of his position, if not then this doesn't not apply)
3. The four classic styles
Tight : Refer to playing a specific strong range of hands preflop (always considering the position). This mean you will play only strong hands from early position (UTG, HI), in late position it should be only strong hands, but you can play some slightly weaker. In late position you should open your range in order to eat the blinds, however good player can catch up vs this (I personally am very very aggressive from the blind). This is how you should play in low stakes.
Loose : Refer to playing a wide range of hands preflop, mostly abusing positional advantage vs weaker players (well, any player). Personally I am loose/aggressive and it is the reason why I am getting so much action with weak hands and also from weaker players. Looseness is IMO only profitable in mid to high stakes, I would not suggest at all in low stakes (even low-mid).
Passive : Refer to the tendancy to check and call post flop, basically letting your opponent do the betting for you. Passivity is very dangerous at higher stakes and highly exploitable. I do not even think playing passively is the best style at lower stakes, however you shouldn't bet your weak hands (because you will be called by crap) so being too aggressive like bluffing totally isn't the way to go.
Aggressive : Refer to the tendancy to bet weak and strong hands post flop alike, check/raising is also a very strong signs of aggression, but you def cannot check/raise too often, it is very situational. Playing aggressively is needed to get action from stronger and weaker player alike in higher stakes, it is important because at higher stakes you will be playing the same player over and over, so they will get reads on you.
4. Stakes
Low stakes : I think the game is mostly uninteresting if you are looking to make big money off the low stakes really fast, because at lower stakes you will be grinding and playing very tight, so the money will come over the number of hands you play. However this is a serious part of your game plan, it's where you will learn to play solidly. Basically playing Tight Aggressive is probably the strongest style.
Mid stakes : Any style can be good really, it's just about playing good poker. Usually playing aggressive garantee action, passivity can be good vs some kind of very aggressive player to let them bluff. You will have to start thinking really hard about your opponent ranges and try to play the opponent/opponent card more than playing your own hands. I think the 2nd level of thinking start here, basically trying to guess his hands and play your own profitably.
High stakes : Well high stakes is a totally different game, you will most likely only play good player, or once in a while a gambler which stack will go down surprisingly fast. It comes down to a lot of metagames and a lot of aggression, a whole lot of bluff too. You need to start thinking how regulars will adapt to your own styles and how they perceive you. You should also pull a lot of unconventional move vs regulars to prevent them from playing optimally and keep them guessing. This is why you see a lot of really weird move with totally crappy hands in these stakes.
Edit #1:
Why slowplaying is often bad :
Pretty interesting topic small stakes player don't seem to understand very well. Probably with slow playing big hands, let's say a set on a drawy board is that you can expect your opponent to stay in the hand if he has a good pair and fold if draw doesn't hit. Scare card will kill your action even if you are truly believing you still have the best hand. Secondly, if a draw hits you are now the one unsure about your hand, but you certainly can't really fold your set, so you want to charge them a lot every street you play. Force them to put the money so if they call they commit themselves, or they can just fold and you pick the pot no risk. Another situation is you have KQ on K58, no flush draw. You could think calling to a bet is good she keeps betting you with worst hand, it is a pretty situation, he can always hope you fold or flat call and he will hope to hit some hidden two pair or you will see an ace and feel pretty depressed, since he will either give you no action or bluff you off the best hand.
Edit #2:
Check/Raising for value: One essential point of check raising for value is to not leave yourself open, this way when you check no player can be assured you are weak and learn to read you (yes, other players do adapt... sometimes lol). To most weaker player check raising is only used on flop when you check so the original better bet and then proceed to raise him when you have a strong hand(PS. This move is not weak or bad, but common). There is much more to check raising than only doing it on flop for value.
Check raising turn for value is slightly good vs aggressive players, vs bad aggressive players it is godly, on the opposite it is losing value vs any passive players.
First vs a good aggressive player, you usally would understand that those players are the kind who will bluff you off weaker holding most of the time w marginal hands, but are capable of laying down once they feel you are strong.
For this part of the article I am refering to a very standard dry board without draws where player are unlikely to improve, on these boards good aggressive players are unlikely to fire triple barrel(but will often fire 2 barrels) unless an ace on river, this is why you should check raise turn and not try to get more value on river, they will fold to turn bet if you lead most of the time if they have marginal holding.
However horrible aggressive players are likely to get tilted by check raise and try to make hero call down since they believe they have "odds" considering they have money in the pot and the board is dry making it unlikely for you to hit (on the contrary, good players will fire some barrels in aggressive manner, but without risking playing a big pot or getting it in) so it is much more likely that they will try to playback at you - so heres my advice vs them, going double check raise vs them (flop/turn) is very strong to induce bluff, if they do check flop behind, simply bet turn, if they check turn behind, simply bet (at this point you get a call pretty often if you don't bet overly huge).
Check raising is bad vs passive player obviously because they will most likely check behind most of their holding not giving you information on their hands nor getting value, just bet bet bet with your nut!
More to come  Comment are wanted and welcomed! I haven't discussed the deeper stuff yet!
Edited by OddEye (05/05/08 01:07 PM)
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 Atheist
FøøL
 
Registered: 01/24/06
Posts: 9,203
Loc: USA
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 Re: The odd's guide to online poker! [Re: OddEye]
#8195827 - 03/26/08 09:54 AM (7 months, 23 days ago) |
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do you play bodog?
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OddEye
Lord of the kings
Registered: 10/08/04
Posts: 145
Last seen: 3 hours, 39 minutes
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Re: The odd's guide to online poker! [Re: Atheist]
#8195846 - 03/26/08 10:01 AM (7 months, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
Atheist said:
do you play bodog?
Nope, I'm guessing that a poker software? Never even heard about ;P As I said I play ultimate bet, thats about it for now.
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Atheist
FøøL
Registered: 01/24/06
Posts: 9,203
Loc: USA
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Re: The odd's guide to online poker! [Re: OddEye]
#8195850 - 03/26/08 10:02 AM (7 months, 23 days ago) |
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you'v never heard of bodog??
i thought it was the #1 online poker site, thats the only one i'v ever played
bought in for like 20 bucks once, got up to 400+ and didnt cash out, then lost it all
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 truekimbo2
total being glossolalia
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 4,839
Loc: ny
Last seen: 3 minutes, 57 seconds
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Re: The odd's guide to online poker! [Re: Atheist]
#8195863 - 03/26/08 10:06 AM (7 months, 23 days ago) |
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i've grown to really really hate online poker. its incredibly easy to double tipple or quadruple up at a table within 2-3 hours, but then i will get a 10 hand ridiculous losing streak (low two pairs against high two pairs, K high flushes against ace high flushes, flop a low end straight and go all in, they call with a pair and hit high end straight... all against weak players who will call all ins with top pair and shit)
i usually play 1/2 or lower, and the luck is hellish.
the one time i played 3/6 i had 400 something dollars, i call with KK as first to act, a couple callers around to BB who makes it 20, so i make it 80, BB calls everyone else folds. flop comes out 10, J rag he checks and i go all in for a bit over 300. of course he calls with AQ and hits a K on the turn... river is a rag.
honestly i can't deal with that shit, 400 dollars is more than a months rent for me.
and thats why i don't play online poker.
edit: i play tight and i show hands that people fold to me exactly so i can avoid situations like that, and it still doesn't matter jack shit people will call 10x-20x BB against me with rags. thats another thing that gets me all the time is i raise retarded preflop with AKs and i'll get a single caller with A5 and if i'm first to act of course i'm going all in if rags hit on the flop... and they're stupid rags hit and i get wiped out.
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I'm trapped with a mad man. look at him, staring into me, filling my mind with paranoid thoughts
Edited by truekimbo2 (03/26/08 10:11 AM)
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OddEye
Lord of the kings
Registered: 10/08/04
Posts: 145
Last seen: 3 hours, 39 minutes
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Re: The odd's guide to online poker! [Re: Atheist]
#8195867 - 03/26/08 10:07 AM (7 months, 23 days ago) |
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LOL! I'll add the bankroll management part soon enough, SO important seriously. Way too easy to lose it all if don't have at least 20buyins, to handle the variance.
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truekimbo2
total being glossolalia
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 4,839
Loc: ny
Last seen: 3 minutes, 57 seconds
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Re: The odd's guide to online poker! [Re: OddEye]
#8195886 - 03/26/08 10:16 AM (7 months, 23 days ago) |
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i know about proper bankroll management but at 1/2 alot of places let you buy in for 200$... so i'd still need like 10k to be happy with 50 buy-ins... at the buyins i can properly afford i'd have to grind for a day to make 10-20$
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I'm trapped with a mad man. look at him, staring into me, filling my mind with paranoid thoughts
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 6,896
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Re: The odd's guide to online poker! [Re: truekimbo2]
#8195903 - 03/26/08 10:23 AM (7 months, 23 days ago) |
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I think I'll give online poker a shot. I'm an average player really, but I have at least a couple hundred bucks I wouldn't mind blowing.
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The life of American Vagabonds
To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all.
-Oscar Wilde
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usefulidiot13
Higher Than Ive Ever Been.
Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 4,205
Last seen: 4 hours, 20 minutes
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Re: The odd's guide to online poker! [Re: Ferris]
#8195915 - 03/26/08 10:25 AM (7 months, 23 days ago) |
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fuck that.
buy chronic?
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mmmm, weed.
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 6,896
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Re: The odd's guide to online poker! [Re: usefulidiot13]
#8195926 - 03/26/08 10:28 AM (7 months, 23 days ago) |
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Solid advice
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The life of American Vagabonds
To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all.
-Oscar Wilde
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OddEye
Lord of the kings
Registered: 10/08/04
Posts: 145
Last seen: 3 hours, 39 minutes
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Re: The odd's guide to online poker! [Re: Ferris]
#8196184 - 03/26/08 11:42 AM (7 months, 23 days ago) |
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50buyin is pretty big unless you are playing very high stakes. Also buyin for 200$ in 1/2 is standard, 100bb is the standard buyin. I advice buyin fullstack all the time, also if you have a couple of hundreds buck I suggest you start playing at NL10 at most, NL25 if you believe in your skill hardcore, but make sure to play tight and aggressive (only with your good hands)
Also on a side note, bad beats will always happen, if they are making you this angry and you play bad because of it then either start controlling your emotions or quit the game altogether. Personally I get very angry but menaged to control my emotions overtime and I am clearly a long term winner even if I have a pretty bad mood during bad beats I don't let it affect my poker skill.
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meams
Stranger(s)
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 3,311
Loc: Nawfuck VA
Last seen: 7 hours, 26 minutes
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Re: The odd's guide to online poker! [Re: OddEye]
#8196253 - 03/26/08 12:06 PM (7 months, 23 days ago) |
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i'm a long term online poker player (~5yr) on and off, and am down a considerable amount over that period (nothing I couldn't afford to lose).
Essentially, through my freshman/sophomore/junior years of college any leftover money i had i'd throw in online poker for entertainment purposes. I never considered it a way to make serious money because I didn't have the know-how.
Thanks Odd for making this guide, and I look forward to reading more in-depth analysis once you post it up. I haven't played in a while, but would love to get back into it.
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mandolin.
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OddEye
Lord of the kings
Registered: 10/08/04
Posts: 145
Last seen: 3 hours, 39 minutes
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Re: The odd's guide to online poker! [Re: meams]
#8196319 - 03/26/08 12:29 PM (7 months, 23 days ago) |
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If you get back into it don't let yourself make the mistake you used to do. It's a thinking game, ask yourself those questions : "What kind of player is this, tight or loose/passive or aggressive?" Then you have a better range for him preflop if you think he is very tight(plays very little hand, less than one hand per orbit) you can put him on let's say "AT+, JQs+, 77+, no suited connector" if he raises in early position or middle position, in later position you can add "67s+ and probably any AXs (x = any card)). Then if you think he is usually passive (doesn't bet much unless he has the nuts) and he bet flop on A high and turn again, you can clearly put him on an A. Also take a look if they continuation bet on flop after raising, I will discuss this later.
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meams
Stranger(s)
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 3,311
Loc: Nawfuck VA
Last seen: 7 hours, 26 minutes
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Re: The odd's guide to online poker! [Re: OddEye]
#8213664 - 03/30/08 08:27 AM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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OddEye - lookin forward to updates on the guide my friend, I broke the other night and put my last expendable $50 into online poker.
That was...around 10pm on the 28th. I downloaded/signed up on Ultimat Bet - since I was tired of Full Tilt and the garbage beats that seem to constantly happen over there. I now have ~300 in the account, so i'm up around $250. Been playing .25/.50 and a few .10/.25 games (for fun).
I didn't really change my "style of play" except that I take every hand 100% seriously. I've been using position and basic betting logic to try to decipher what my opponents have, and weigh that against my current cards. It seems to be working - and I've started a excel page to document my earnings/losses.
Although - from the few days that i've been on UB - they do have a significantly less amount of bullshit hands (from what I can tell).
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mandolin.
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Justice_Fish
Fustice_Jish
Registered: 01/06/07
Posts: 1,900
Loc: Québec
Last seen: 3 minutes, 3 seconds
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Re: The odd's guide to online poker! [Re: meams]
#8213784 - 03/30/08 09:31 AM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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I will never understand anything about online poker I think.
But hey, hello from Québec!! 
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OddEye
Lord of the kings
Registered: 10/08/04
Posts: 145
Last seen: 3 hours, 39 minutes
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 Re: The odd's guide to online poker! [Re: Justice_Fish]
#8352962 - 05/02/08 08:54 AM (6 months, 17 days ago) |
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Ok guys, get ready for some updates, it's time I give ya something before I get too full of myself and refuse to take my time to write this down. I'm about to be done with my job and get into fulltime poker.
Oh guys the feeling, knowing I'll be finally be able to walk the life, not having to wake or work for anyone else than myself.
Also what topic do you wanna hear about? There just like so many I can't just find any that will be better, so please suggest buddys.
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truekimbo2
total being glossolalia
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 4,839
Loc: ny
Last seen: 3 minutes, 57 seconds
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Re: The odd's guide to online poker! [Re: OddEye]
#8353620 - 05/02/08 12:25 PM (6 months, 17 days ago) |
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i have a question. i'm playing tight raising like 8x the BB in low stakes games with AK. one caller. my K comes out on the flop, and its not scarey board. so i bet pot. a seeming blank hits on the turn, what do i do?
it seems like in any extended session, i'll eventually go broke because i'll do a huge preflop raise with a good hand, hit top pair and bet pot to the river then someone will go all in, and will have called preflop with rags, call my pot bet on the flop with middle pair and river 2 pair or three of a kind.
i'm wondering if there is maybe something i can do differently on the turn so that it doesn't get to the river... or so that i don't feel obligated to call a large bet on the river.
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I'm trapped with a mad man. look at him, staring into me, filling my mind with paranoid thoughts
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TrippinTeddy
Lost Voyager
Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 12,783
Loc: Returning Video Tapes
Last seen: 16 hours, 57 minutes
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Re: The odd's guide to online poker! [Re: OddEye]
#8353654 - 05/02/08 12:37 PM (6 months, 17 days ago) |
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I'm Poker stars player, and I've been playing online for about 6 + years.
I use to play high stakes LIMIT hold'em and I was making about 500-1000 bucks a day doing this. Then I fucked up and got a dwi and got a little depressed and my poker game went to shit. I haven't played a high stakes game in almost 2 years now. Now I just play when the mood strikes me on low limit, NO limit. I wish I could get back into the game, but I've totally lost my interest in it.
Your guide is pretty soild, but nothing that any standard poker books doesn't tell you.
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TrippinTeddy
Lost Voyager
Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 12,783
Loc: Returning Video Tapes
Last seen: 16 hours, 57 minutes
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Re: The odd's guide to online poker! [Re: truekimbo2]
#8353676 - 05/02/08 12:43 PM (6 months, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
truekimbo2 said:
i have a question. i'm playing tight raising like 8x the BB in low stakes games with AK. one caller. my K comes out on the flop, and its not scarey board. so i bet pot. a seeming blank hits on the turn, what do i do?
it seems like in any extended session, i'll eventually go broke because i'll do a huge preflop raise with a good hand, hit top pair and bet pot to the river then someone will go all in, and will have called preflop with rags, call my pot bet on the flop with middle pair and river 2 pair or three of a kind.
i'm wondering if there is maybe something i can do differently on the turn so that it doesn't get to the river... or so that i don't feel obligated to call a large bet on the river.
You need to work on your preflop betting first of all man.
The standard rule for raising pre flop is to raise 3x the big blind. If you are in late position add a blind for every caller behind the 3rd caller.
So if 5 people are in the pot you will raise 4-5X the big blind. Of course this will vary according to the player types at the table and your table image.
Now on the flop when you hit your K, you should assume you have the best hand, and should bet about 80-100% of the pot. If you get a caller you know you are in trouble. You will have to assume that this person has Trips, or is on some sort of a draw. If you think its a draw you need to punish them for it. If you assume he has you beat, then you can either bet big here if you think this type of player will fold, or back off and fold your self.
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OddEye
Lord of the kings
Registered: 10/08/04
Posts: 145
Last seen: 3 hours, 39 minutes
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Re: The odd's guide to online poker! [Re: truekimbo2]
#8353677 - 05/02/08 12:43 PM (6 months, 17 days ago) |
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Weird situation, usually you should raise only 3-4x preflop. If you raise 8x it is likely that you will not get reraised unless they have a better hand, therefor they will flat call most pocket pair and JT or JK type of hand where they will play rather weakly if they only hit one pair and aggressively with two pair.
When you raise and they flat call it is called a 2bet pot, when you raise and they reraise or vice-versa it is a 3bet pot. Since the pot is big preflop in 3bet situation your top pair top kicker with AK is almost always good. In a 2bet pot, I would play much more cautiously because yes, you'll often be facing 2 pairs, set or monster draws so you are very rarely ahead if your opponent is tight and does not get out of the line. So I like usually betting flop with your top pair, from that point you have two options : bet turn/fold to a raise (if the board is scary), however I really like checking turn behind if you are NOT afraid of many cards, like easy two pairs or straight, so you can safely bet river (people almost never re-raise river unless they have monster, so if they reraise you simply insta fold your top pair top kicker vs a good player)
Vs a fish who can't fold any top pair don't shy up on bet/raise/call raise without tomorrow to protect your hand, however the paragraph over explains well what to do vs more solid player to get maximum value with losing less when you are beat.
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