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 PopACapInHisAss
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 65
Last seen: 13 days, 21 hours
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 Tyvek "Bubbling Up" After PC'ing?
#8393983 - 05/12/08 07:21 PM (6 months, 16 days ago) |
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I made some jar lids with 2-layer tyvek air ports.
They layers are separated by space, cover holes
3/4 inch in diameter, and are completely sealed
around the perimeter by silicone.
After PC'ing, the tyvek disks had "bubbled" up in
the center on most but not all jars.
The jars still seem to maintain sterile integrity
but I don't think they will be reusable.
Any ideas why this happened? Temperature differential
and escaping steam from a jar too air tight?
Back to the drawing board for my lid design...Maybe
I'll just save up 4 some syringe filters.
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spock1
Stranger
 
Registered: 04/14/07
Posts: 589
Last seen: 5 months, 9 days
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 Re: Tyvek "Bubbling Up" After PC'ing? *DELETED* [Re: PopACapInHisAss]
#8394007 - 05/12/08 07:25 PM (6 months, 16 days ago) |
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Post deleted by spock1Reason for deletion: .
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grymmtymm
lostinthought
Registered: 03/29/08
Posts: 566
Loc: midwest, unfortunately
Last seen: 20 hours, 39 minutes
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i think it's might be cause you put the lids on too tight?
i use tyvek exclusively, just one layer beneath reusable plastic lids and i always tighten my lids down, the tyvek always sucks downward into the jar...
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spock1
Stranger
Registered: 04/14/07
Posts: 589
Last seen: 5 months, 9 days
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Re: Tyvek "Bubbling Up" After PC'ing? *DELETED* [Re: grymmtymm]
#8394167 - 05/12/08 08:01 PM (6 months, 16 days ago) |
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Post deleted by spock1Reason for deletion: .
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P.Menace
Contradicting the Status Quo
Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 3,880
Loc: Let Me See Potato Salad!!...
Last seen: 13 hours, 41 minutes
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Re: Tyvek "Bubbling Up" After PC'ing? [Re: spock1]
#8394632 - 05/12/08 09:46 PM (6 months, 16 days ago) |
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 he said save up for whatman filters
--------------------
I just LOVE how everybody has their facts real straight...
http://www.sporeworksgallery.com/Cubensae/Psilocybe_cubensis_Menace
SainT420 said: You gotta be a Man of your Word... Or you will be a Man of NO WORDS! 6 feet Under 
Prisoner # 1 said: always remember, the stupid ones never realize they're stupid... BlackMatch456,lil_demented,Dizzwizzle,djblackout
Blutjager said: "The work for payoff ratio for pf tek is like driving 500 miles to work all day for minimum wage,.  in other words ITS NOT WORTH IT "
roby000 said: thats true a shotgun is almost like a college degree in a sense that if you show it to the right person at the right time you could make a lot of money.
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tahoe
Noob Slayer
Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 4,520
Loc: N38.93829W119.98108
Last seen: 15 days, 8 hours
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Re: Tyvek "Bubbling Up" After PC'ing? [Re: P.Menace]
#8395858 - 05/13/08 09:12 AM (6 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
P.Menace said:
he said save up for whatman filters
I was going to send a bunch of spawn out to someone and all I ask was for 15$ to cover the 10$ postage and I guess 5$ time, labor, material, know how, lunch, gas.......
The guy said that he had to save it up. I could pull that out from under neath my floor mats in my car.
--------------------
Alder is not the BEST type of to use
Heat drying cubes is okay and recommended
Sunflower seeds do not cause contams
You should directly mist your cakes
The subjects that I cover are not species specific and can be used in All Aspects of Mycology
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PopACapInHisAss
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 65
Last seen: 13 days, 21 hours
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Re: Tyvek "Bubbling Up" After PC'ing? [Re: spock1]
#8396126 - 05/13/08 10:30 AM (6 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
spock1 said:
take a picture 
Yeah well, my Canon 30D is in hock at the moment.
It looks very much like a water blister like a
person might get from hard work or a lot of walking.
It is perfectly flat around the edges, then it is
raised to form a somewhat flat bubble, like a convex blister shape. The bottom is the reverse of that,
a concave cavity raised up from the flat tyvek
surface.
Again, none of my jars contaminated but the tyvek
integrity is obviously compromised to some degree.
P.Menace and tahoe, I congratulate you on your good financial fortune.
Personally, I am financing a legal battle and scraping
every penny I can to float a business to turn my
situation around.
And yes, for me right now, a lot of 150 syringe filters
are very expensive.
Everyone is susceptible to a little bad luck in life.
If you aren't, then please spill a little good fortune
my way. I'll be happy to PM you my business mailing
address ;o)
It is OK though, my court case is poised to set a
famous precedent and it should help the book I'm writing
fly off the shelf!!!
Besides, if everyone was so well off, why would anyone
bother with homemade solutions when tools such as
syringe filters are so readily available.
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Brainiac
Ghost
Registered: 04/29/06
Posts: 9,470
Loc: I will know,when I'm ther...
Last seen: 36 minutes, 25 seconds
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Look on Ebay, you can buy them for 2.00 each...
--------------------
I'm dyslexia, so get the fuck over it. "Ardet Nec Consumitur" (burned but not destroyed) People shouldn't be afraid of it's government.The government should be afraid of it's people..
Me
LTB seeds/cutings of SS02, Juul's Giant
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P.Menace
Contradicting the Status Quo
Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 3,880
Loc: Let Me See Potato Salad!!...
Last seen: 13 hours, 41 minutes
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Re: Tyvek "Bubbling Up" After PC'ing? [Re: Brainiac]
#8396581 - 05/13/08 12:42 PM (6 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
Brainiac said:
2.00 each...
--------------------
I just LOVE how everybody has their facts real straight...
http://www.sporeworksgallery.com/Cubensae/Psilocybe_cubensis_Menace
SainT420 said: You gotta be a Man of your Word... Or you will be a Man of NO WORDS! 6 feet Under
Prisoner # 1 said: always remember, the stupid ones never realize they're stupid... BlackMatch456,lil_demented,Dizzwizzle,djblackout
Blutjager said: "The work for payoff ratio for pf tek is like driving 500 miles to work all day for minimum wage,. in other words ITS NOT WORTH IT "
roby000 said: thats true a shotgun is almost like a college degree in a sense that if you show it to the right person at the right time you could make a lot of money.
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PopACapInHisAss
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 65
Last seen: 13 days, 21 hours
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Quote:
PopACapInHisAss said:
Quote:
spock1 said:
take a picture
It looks very much like a water blister like a
person might get from hard work or a lot of walking.
It is perfectly flat around the edges, then it is
raised to form a somewhat flat bubble, like a convex blister shape. The bottom is the reverse of that,
a concave cavity raised up from the flat tyvek
surface.
Again, none of my jars contaminated but the tyvek
integrity is obviously compromised to some degree.
Maybe I raised the PC temp too quickly. I use a fairly
ferocious propane burner. It takes about 35 minutes
+/- to get to 15 PSI. Is this about normal?
Anyway, I will think about the Ebay syringe filters
but, I *want* a lot of 150! I like buying in bulk
to save money. I also want to put more than one filter
per jar, use them for both culture and spawn jars,
etc, etc... I want a lot of them. Assuming my design
isn't resuable because of the bubbles, I just went
through 42 painstakingly home made lids!
Granted, not one contaminated.
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 billyboy36
Stranger
Registered: 05/04/08
Posts: 311
Loc: Canada
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what makes you think they aren't reusable? are they "stretched" or something? try not tightening your lids; back them off a 1/4 turn and re-tighten immediately upon opening the pc.
I would guess that if you tighten them, you are forcing steam in through the lid tyvek at a rate faster than the micron holes allow and that slightly stretches it out and then when the pressure equalizes, the stretched area reverses and gives the impression of a bubble the other way. just a guess though
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PopACapInHisAss
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 65
Last seen: 13 days, 21 hours
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Re: Tyvek "Bubbling Up" After PC'ing? [Re: billyboy36]
#8407736 - 05/15/08 11:26 PM (6 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
billyboy36 said:
what makes you think they aren't reusable? are they "stretched" or something? try not tightening your lids; back them off a 1/4 turn and re-tighten immediately upon opening the pc.
I would guess that if you tighten them, you are forcing steam in through the lid tyvek at a rate faster than the micron holes allow and that slightly stretches it out and then when the pressure equalizes, the stretched area reverses and gives the impression of a bubble the other way. just a guess though
Yeah, the tyvek is deformed now. It was perfectly flat
and held so by a significant layered ring of silicone.
To bubble, it had to stretch and deform to make a flat
raised bubble shape about 1/8-3/16" high.
I don't want to reuse them because I don't want to trust
the integrity of the deformed tyvek.
Yeah, I think steam forcing through could have been the
culprit. That is why I asked about the lid tightness
or if I was heating the PC up too quickly.
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PopACapInHisAss
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 65
Last seen: 13 days, 21 hours
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Yeah, plain old fish aquarium silicone from Walmart
and/or Home Depot. HD carries DAP brand, I forget what
WM carries.
As I understand it, the aquarium silicone is not
supposed to contain toxic curing agents. It also
dries quickly, is inexpensive, cures very tough,
is rated to 400F, and acts as an adhesive, gap filler,
and sealant.
Why not silicone? RTV is just a form of silicone,
although I guess it doesn't have to be. Stands for
Room Temperature Vulcanization.
I drilled an air hole, put a ring of silicone around
it, suspended a round piece of tyvek in on top of the
ring, let it dry, then put a nice thick raised ring
all the way around it overlapping the top edge again
to be certain it was sealed and secure. Then I did
the same on the reverse side to make two layers of
tyvek separated by a small air space.
I was hoping that if the tyvek layers were separated, moisture from the bottom one might not be able to soak
through to the top and feed contams.
I don't know if my separated layers design has any
merit, but not a single jar contam'ed even thought
the tyvek on most of them was deformed from PC'ing.
However, I did shake them a lot and there was mycelium
growing on the bottom surface of most of the lids.
Apparently nothing nutritious made it through my
layers of tyvek.
My innoc. ports were made the same way except there is
also silicone between the pieces of tyvek and coating
both exposed surfaces as well.
Edited by PopACapInHisAss (05/16/08 06:21 PM)
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spock1
Stranger
Registered: 04/14/07
Posts: 589
Last seen: 5 months, 9 days
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Re: Tyvek "Bubbling Up" After PC'ing? *DELETED* [Re: PopACapInHisAss]
#8410821 - 05/16/08 08:14 PM (6 months, 12 days ago) |
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Post deleted by spock1Reason for deletion: .
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PopACapInHisAss
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 65
Last seen: 13 days, 21 hours
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Re: Tyvek "Bubbling Up" After PC'ing? [Re: spock1]
#8412495 - 05/17/08 11:19 AM (6 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
spock1 said:
You don't need tyvek on the inoculation port, if it is just covered with silicone anyway. Just use a big blob of silicone. I've heard it can be reused over 10 times.
I'd guess that your design is the reason for the bubbling tyvek, but I don't know why. I've never had tyvek bubble. Maybe the 2 layers cause a high pressure difference. Which layer bubbled or did both?
Yeah, I just put the tyvek in the innoc. port for some
strength across such a big gap. I drilled some of the
holes as large as 7/8" with the idea that I could maybe
reuse it more times without risk of structural or other
integrity issues.
On all the ones that bubbled, both layers bubbled in the
same way as if steam was the culprit.
The basics of the design work. Maybe I'll run some
of the ones that didn't bubble back through the PC with
the lids loosened more to see what happens.
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