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 primus99
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 Critique my liquid culture to coir bulk bags plan
#8395034 - 05/12/08 11:49 PM (6 months, 16 days ago) |
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Hello all,
I'd like to get your opinions on this portion of my grow plan - I'm particularly interested in thoughts you have regarding contamination
History: -I have been successfully able to produce viable liquid culture on several occasions - this is a fairly easy step, and I actually have never encountered contamination on this step. These steps will assume that I have 8 250 ml mason jars full of non-contamed mycelium produced using a modified Club99's Honeywater Tek
I. Preparation of spawn bags
1. Within rubbermaid bins, fill with necessary amount of the following bulk sub mixture:
-7-10% gypsum
-10% vermiculite
-60% hydrated coir
-20% coffee grinds
-the mixture will be brought to slightly *under* field capacity(which is defined as squeezing the mixture and having a couple of drops fall out). this is so the moisture is not ruined when ~180ml of mycelium water is injected into the bags
-Hydrated lime will be used to bring the mixture up to a ph of 7.5.
2. Fill 8 sporeworks Large Presealable Autoclavable Gusseted Bulk Spawn Bags w/ Self-Healing Injector Site with the above substrate mix.
-The spawn bags will be filled to the level specified within this spawn bag preparation page.
-the bags will be sealed by ironing over paper(my technique on this one has already been worked out)
3. A large 20 qt pressure cooker will be used to bring water to 170 degrees Fahrenheit. The sealed bags will be seated within the water and allowed to pasteurize for 1 hour. Following the hour, the bags will be removed and I will place a bead of silicone on each bag just above substrate level(the injection site).
-Allow 24 hours for heat to dissipate within the bags.
II. Injecting fruiting bags.
5. Sterilize 140cc syringe - place 140 CC syringe within pot of water. Boil syringe for 20 mins. Upon removing syringe, cover locking area where sterile needle will be placed.
6. Create ghetto fume hood - turn oven on and allow to heat up. Open oven door and perform further sterile work here(I have had success with this method in the LC stage)
7. Place fruiting bag, 140 CC syringe, single honey water jar filled with ~200ml mycelium water on open door of stove. Using a new sterile needle(flamed before usage), draw(as much as possible) ~120ml honeywater into 140cc syringe and quickly inject through silicone bead in fruting bag.
Repeat for each of the 8 fruiting bags and jars.
8. Following injection, mush up fruiting substrate to ensure good contact between mycelium and substrat.
9. Incubate in a dark environment until mycelium fully colonizes bags(7-days-2 weeks).
What are my chances of success without contamination during these steps? what can I do to improve my odds?
Thanks all.
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kydub
AmateurMycologist
Registered: 03/12/08
Posts: 104
Last seen: 2 months, 16 days
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Re: Critique my liquid culture to coir bulk bags plan [Re: primus99]
#8395130 - 05/13/08 12:23 AM (6 months, 16 days ago) |
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Damn, sounds pretty good. I'm doing the same thing at the moment with hpoo bags instead of coir, and that's more or less the steps I'm following at the moment.
The only suggestion I would have is to fully sterilize your bags instead of pasteurizing - this is your substrate, the only thing you want present is nutrients and mycelium. I was told, and have seen elsewhere 3 hours for hpoo bags - you might do the same, it can't hurt.
It really does suck to lose a batch of bags. =(
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primus99
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Re: Critique my liquid culture to coir bulk bags plan [Re: kydub]
#8395848 - 05/13/08 09:08 AM (6 months, 16 days ago) |
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Thanks for the reply kydub - its heartening to hear that I am not the only one going from liquid culture to substrate bags.
Regarding the sterilization vs. pasteurization, I am under the impression that pasteurization is preferable as it kills off the bad bacteria(trich) while leaving the bacteria that inhibit the growth of molds and bacterial cultures that are the main mycelium competitors -
I only have experience with sterilization of a substrate bag in the past-it contaminated quickly(this was probably due to the large holes I managed to put into the bag  )
Does anyone have any opinions regarding pasteurization vs. sterilization for me and kydub? Will the addition of the gypsum, lime, vermiculite and coffee grinds to the substrate affect plans to pasteurize?
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grod31
Registered: 12/06/07
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Loc: New York
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Re: Critique my liquid culture to coir bulk bags plan [Re: primus99]
#8395926 - 05/13/08 09:42 AM (6 months, 16 days ago) |
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i didn't read his post but i have read numerous post in the past that say lc strait to coir will not work. shit i dont know why, that just what i remember reading a few times.
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Let it roll! Just as high as the
fucker can go! And when it comes
to that fantastic note where the
rabbit bites its own head off, I
want you to THROW THAT FUCKING
RADIO INTO THE TUB WITH ME!
Not me. It would blast you through
the wall stone dead in ten
seconds and they'd make me explain
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kydub
AmateurMycologist
Registered: 03/12/08
Posts: 104
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Re: Critique my liquid culture to coir bulk bags plan [Re: grod31]
#8395992 - 05/13/08 09:58 AM (6 months, 16 days ago) |
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Pasteurization is preferable in casings. The beneficial bacteria you're talking about helps in the formation of pins, and in making the micro-climates necessary for same.
In a substrate you want sterilization. ALL that needs to be there is mycelium - there is no 'beneficial' bacteria that is going to help the colonization process along. You'd be best served by full sterilization, in my opinion.
Also, grod31 raises a good point - LC straight to coir probably isn't going to work very well, if at all. I had assumed you were using WBS as well - but after a reread this doesn't seem to be the case.
Generally you use WBS/rye/popcorn/whatever and spawn that into hpoo/coir/whatever. The previously colonized spawn will use the grains as a 'jump off' point to take over the rest of the substrate. In a substrate bag, you'll also need grains of some kind in there.
The 'tek' I'm using (provided by P.Menace, and posted by Carlito) calls for 48cups of hpoo, and 16.5 of WBS.
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Yossarian22
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Re: Critique my liquid culture to coir bulk bags plan [Re: kydub]
#8396889 - 05/13/08 01:58 PM (6 months, 16 days ago) |
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I've never heard of people successfully skipping the spawn phase, but I suppose if you use enough LC, it might be possible though definitely not feasible.
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kydub
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Registered: 03/12/08
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Last seen: 2 months, 16 days
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Re: Critique my liquid culture to coir bulk bags plan [Re: Yossarian22]
#8396909 - 05/13/08 02:04 PM (6 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
Yossarian22 said:
I've never heard of people successfully skipping the spawn phase, but I suppose if you use enough LC, it might be possible though definitely not feasible.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4340904/page/0/fpart/1/vc/1
Now you've heard of one. =)
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Yossarian22
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Re: Critique my liquid culture to coir bulk bags plan [Re: kydub]
#8396976 - 05/13/08 02:17 PM (6 months, 16 days ago) |
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I stand corrected. Good luck.
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primus99
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Re: Critique my liquid culture to coir bulk bags plan [Re: kydub]
#8398449 - 05/13/08 08:48 PM (6 months, 15 days ago) |
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Thanks for posting the link to BlueHelix's work inoculating straight to his substrate-this thread is chalk full of goodness(read, I'm going to have to pimp my LC setup).
I will make the revision to my steps-I will be PC'ing the bags at 15lbs - 3.5 hours sound good?
I am also interested in your reasoning regarding the WBS vs coir - I'm curious as to why you predict failure when going straight from LC to the proposed coir substrate mix as opposed to WBS first. From what I understand, coir is fairly fast at colonizing, no? Is this a contamination issue?
Thanks for the assistance again kydub!
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kydub
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Re: Critique my liquid culture to coir bulk bags plan [Re: primus99]
#8398502 - 05/13/08 08:59 PM (6 months, 15 days ago) |
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I'm with ya on the pimped LCs - I have a couple stirrers now because of that thread. Makes a huge difference.
15psi for 3.5 hours sounds fine - I just did my bags again (first time they melted, too little water) last night for 3 hours. P.Menace gave me a great suggestion - put down jars at the bottom of your PC and set the bags on that. You'll lose space, but they won't melt - like mine did.
As for my reasoning - it's not WBS vs Coir, it's WBS with Coir. My hpoo bags are hpoo/wbs/verm, I'm proposing you do coir/wbs/verm. From what I've read going straight to bulk substrates (solely hpoo, or coir) doesn't work very well. I believe the WBS is there as a surface to colonize, moisture storage, and additional/varied nutrients.
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grod31
Registered: 12/06/07
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Re: Critique my liquid culture to coir bulk bags plan [Re: kydub]
#8398730 - 05/13/08 09:37 PM (6 months, 15 days ago) |
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yes it is possible skip the spawning stage but not with coir look what he usesQuote:
Blue Helix said:
The bags are filled with a mix of WBS and manure (about 1:1). I enriched the mix with a few percent stevia tea leaf (sugar source), little bit of black mustard (rich in oils), and bee pollen (steroidal cubensis growth accelerator and miscellaneous vitamin/mineral source). I used a lot of vermiculite to balance the moisture out too. All in all it's a pretty rich mix.
don't get me wrong I'm a fan of coir but I'm suggesting don't waste your time and effort on this one
--------------------
Back the tape up. I need it again!
Let it roll! Just as high as the
fucker can go! And when it comes
to that fantastic note where the
rabbit bites its own head off, I
want you to THROW THAT FUCKING
RADIO INTO THE TUB WITH ME!
Not me. It would blast you through
the wall stone dead in ten
seconds and they'd make me explain
VVVVV Free Myco Thread
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 FooMan
Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 6,227
Loc: Amsterdam
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Re: Critique my liquid culture to coir bulk bags plan [Re: primus99]
#8398828 - 05/13/08 09:55 PM (6 months, 15 days ago) |
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You should add some kind of grain into the mix. Notice how BlueHelix uses about 50% WBS in his mix. Without the grain, I highly doubt the myc will get going even if you're inoculating with an LC.
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