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 OsculateOfDemise
China CatSunflow<wbr>er
Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 223
Loc: Medford, OR
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 Evolution is a lie
#8469735 - 06/01/08 01:53 AM (5 months, 20 days ago) |
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Or so says this guy, who is all for creationalism.
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
Agree? Disagree? Talk.
Sorry if this video has been posted before.
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johnm214
 
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 6,924
Loc: Americas
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presupposition: mutations are destructive
presupposition: a video is a good way to present a very small number of claims over a loooonog 10 min video.
Do you have a synopsis or transcript of his points? These things are so slow and drawn out, sheesh.
But unless he demonstrates, beyond dogmatic belief, that mutations are destructive, I don't see how he's going to show anything. I gave up after 3 minutes
And things the like sickle cell mutation seem to be a very elegant demonstration of the benifits of mutation that aren't easily able to be disproved.
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 cheshirect666
Wanderer
Registered: 12/17/07
Posts: 279
Loc: Medford, Oregon
Last seen: 1 day, 3 hours
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Re: Evolution is a lie [Re: johnm214]
#8469878 - 06/01/08 03:06 AM (5 months, 20 days ago) |
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i didnt finish it either
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Not all who wander are lost.
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zouden
Neuroscientist
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 3,219
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 1 hour, 3 minutes
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Yeah I hate it when people use a video when text would suffice. It's much harder to skim a video.
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Wave upon wave of demented avengers
Marched cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream
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OsculateOfDemise
China CatSunflow<wbr>er
Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 223
Loc: Medford, OR
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Re: Evolution is a lie [Re: zouden]
#8469899 - 06/01/08 03:27 AM (5 months, 20 days ago) |
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Well there was no text and I am too lazy to go through it and type it out when it is much easier to have people watch it themselves.
But damn, you people have ADD or something. It's not that bad.
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3rdtreenz
Stranger
Registered: 04/26/07
Posts: 23
Loc: Wellington, New Zealand
Last seen: 10 hours, 37 minutes
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Wow people go to such amazing lengths to deliberately misunderstand things. Mutations can't be presumed to be always negative because they are random. Most of the time they are bad but good ones definitely occur look at plant and animal breeding for example, that's pretty much evolving the plants and animals to our liking.
There is no question that life changes and evolves by itself because it happens in front of our eyes. It's the extent to which evolution is true that can be put up for debate I guess, like did life really just form, and I found it interesting what he said about the fossil record. But at the end of the day he was deliberately missing the point and I bet the author himself realises it too. And neanderthals definitely are not people with rickets and syphalis, the symptoms are way different. I guess we're all liars.
I really dislike biased articles, probably only when I disagree though haha
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It's a reefer would you like some mindless. It's a reefer would you like a blast. It's a reefer would you like some mindless? Thanks for your company and thanks for the grass.
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Senor_Hongos
Stranger
Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 4,667
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Quote:
OsculateOfDemise said:
Agree? Disagree? Talk.
I got scart twice. Once when I saw the title of this thread and also when I saw it was a video. After what the others said, I didn't need to watch it.
But, you have a nice avatar. 
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wilgi
Registered: 03/19/08
Posts: 558
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Quote:
Senor_Hongos said:
Quote:
OsculateOfDemise said:
Agree? Disagree? Talk.
I got scart twice. Once when I saw the title of this thread and also when I saw it was a video. After what the others said, I didn't need to watch it.
But, you have a nice avatar.
the guy with the long hair with a finger in his mouth? what the hell dude?!
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retired
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 9,909
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Evolution is a lie (moved)
#8470808 - 06/01/08 12:13 PM (5 months, 19 days ago) |
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 This thread was moved from Philosophy & Spirituality.
Reason:
This topic is better suited to the Science and Technology forum. I\'m moving it there where you\'ll get a better response anyway.
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rev 766
gum flappin' scallywag
Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 742
Last seen: 4 days, 11 hours
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Re: Evolution is a lie [Re: wilgi]
#8470833 - 06/01/08 12:19 PM (5 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
wilgi said:
Quote:
Senor_Hongos said:
Quote:
OsculateOfDemise said:
Agree? Disagree? Talk.
I got scart twice. Once when I saw the title of this thread and also when I saw it was a video. After what the others said, I didn't need to watch it.
But, you have a nice avatar.
the guy with the long hair with a finger in his mouth? what the hell dude?!
that's a chick.
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praise "bob"
did you mean shmooed-R.I.P.
"drought besets the mind, decay besets the man"-me
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rev 766
gum flappin' scallywag
Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 742
Last seen: 4 days, 11 hours
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Re: Evolution is a lie [Re: rev 766]
#8470851 - 06/01/08 12:26 PM (5 months, 19 days ago) |
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i like how it says that evolution is dependent fully on mutations. a change in certain favorable allele frequencies in a population over time would be a better thing to pin evolution's dependence on. i got that far and couldn't watch anymore. fuck this idiot that made the video. he should commit tax fraud so he can go visit kent hovind in prison.
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praise "bob"
did you mean shmooed-R.I.P.
"drought besets the mind, decay besets the man"-me
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tripsis
biophile-misanthropist-doofer
Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 4,128
Loc: Gondwana
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Re: Evolution is a lie [Re: rev 766]
#8471835 - 06/01/08 05:28 PM (5 months, 19 days ago) |
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I couldn't be bothered to even watch it, but there is no decent evidence out there to suggest that evolution is a lie. Quite contrary actually.
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Since we depend on an abundance of functioning ecosystems to cleanse our water, enrich our soil and manufacture the very air we breathe, biodiversity is clearly not an inheritance to be discarded carelessly - Edward O. Wilson 1992
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Cracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper
Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,273
Loc: Here
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yeah, i didn't watch the video but my two cents on mutations and evolution that I think all ya'll would find interesting....
Mutations for asexual organisms can accumulate detrimental mutations that could impinge on the organism's survival.
Muller's Ratchet is the this theory. read more here.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muller's_ratchet
So for sexually reproducing organisms.... We have the Red Queen Hypothesis, where the Red Queen states, "It takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place."
It talks about the advantage of sexual reproduction and the arms race with competing organisms... Parasites evolve then the host organism evolves and vice-versa...
"For an evolutionary system, continuing development is needed just in order to maintain its fitness relative to the systems it is co-evolving with."
For more on the Red Queen... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Queen
lastly, something I think everyone should read about EPIGENETICS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics
http://www.epidna.com/
http://www.ehponline.org/members/2006/114-3/focus.html
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Click here to check out lineups for Magnoliafest and Springfest in Live Oak, FL
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao
-Lao Tzu
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 16,763
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 16 hours, 38 minutes
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> "For an evolutionary system, continuing development is needed just in order to maintain its fitness relative to the systems it is co-evolving with."
From what I have seen with simulated evolution for AI, natural selection stifles evolution while mass extinction drives evolution.
Natural selection tends to specialize members of a population into tight niches (or local minimums in the solution space). Almost all mutations results in a less fit organism. However, several generations down the road, the mutation may turn out to be for the better. Because there is no margin for error in highly specialized population, mutations are constantly weeded out of the population.
However, when you have a mass extinction, natural selection is put on hold for the few remaining organisms. They can mutate without fear of competition. Through these mutations, evolution occurs and new species are born. Eventually, as the populations grow, natural selection starts to kick in, and less fit species are weeded from the population as specialized niches form.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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tripsis
biophile-misanthropist-doofer
Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 4,128
Loc: Gondwana
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Re: Evolution is a lie [Re: Seuss]
#8474043 - 06/02/08 07:34 AM (5 months, 19 days ago) |
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Considering the fact that there have only been 5 known mass extinctions to date, what you say is pretty inaccurate. But we've already had this debate before
Mind you, when I can be bothered I'll post you some present day evidence of new species arising...
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Since we depend on an abundance of functioning ecosystems to cleanse our water, enrich our soil and manufacture the very air we breathe, biodiversity is clearly not an inheritance to be discarded carelessly - Edward O. Wilson 1992
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 16,763
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 16 hours, 38 minutes
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Re: Evolution is a lie [Re: tripsis]
#8474116 - 06/02/08 08:22 AM (5 months, 19 days ago) |
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> Considering the fact that there have only been 5 known mass extinctions to date
The mass extinction of the dinosaurs is a good example, actually. How long did reptiles rule the planet? How long did mammals hide in holes while reptiles ruled the planet? How quickly did mammals evolve new species (literally thousands of them) once the dinosaurs became extinct?
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Just another spore in the wind.
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tripsis
biophile-misanthropist-doofer
Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 4,128
Loc: Gondwana
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Re: Evolution is a lie [Re: Seuss]
#8474122 - 06/02/08 08:28 AM (5 months, 19 days ago) |
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I'm not denying that mass extinctions play an important role in evolution for a second. But I think it is inaccurate to say they are the major driving force. It is true that mass extinction leads to rapid speciation, but small events play just as an important role. As does gradual change.
Take the way climate effects species. Climate changes slowly (relatively), and species adapt to it. Not all species can keep up though and over time rainforest can become a desert and vice versa, and species changes will follow.
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Since we depend on an abundance of functioning ecosystems to cleanse our water, enrich our soil and manufacture the very air we breathe, biodiversity is clearly not an inheritance to be discarded carelessly - Edward O. Wilson 1992
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 16,763
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 16 hours, 38 minutes
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Re: Evolution is a lie [Re: tripsis]
#8474272 - 06/02/08 09:49 AM (5 months, 18 days ago) |
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> It is true that mass extinction leads to rapid speciation
I think you are using the term evolution in the same way that I am using the term speciation... perhaps we simply have a conflict in terminology. If so, probably my mistake rather than yours.
Also, my observations are based upon organisms competing against each other in a simulation, thus I don't take into account slowly changing environmental factors, such as (normal) climate change.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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DieCommie
Ally
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 7,382
Loc: The Union
Last seen: 7 hours, 22 minutes
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hmmmm, evolution is a lie...
So not only is it false and does not occur, but some group somewhere purposefully spread this un-truth in an attempt to deceive the population? yea right...
I dont watch you tube videos, but Im gonna bet that whatever was on them only spoke against evolution and did not offer any evidence at all that it is a lie.
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Behold yon miserable creature. That Point is a Being like ourselves, but confined to the non-dimensional Gulf. He is himself his own World, his own Universe; of any other than himself he can form no conception; he knows not Length, nor Breadth, nor Height, for he has had no experience of them; he has no cognizance even of the number Two; nor has he a thought of Plurality; for he is himself his One and All, being really Nothing. Yet mark his perfect self-contentment, and hence learn his lesson, that to be self-contented is to be vile and ignorant, and that to aspire is better than to be blindly and impotently happy.
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tripsis
biophile-misanthropist-doofer
Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 4,128
Loc: Gondwana
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Re: Evolution is a lie [Re: Seuss]
#8475657 - 06/02/08 04:44 PM (5 months, 18 days ago) |
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The issue of terminology differences and lack of universally accepted definitions seems to be a bit of a problem here really.
Speciation is a part of evolution, and the gradual adaption of one species will over time result in the extinction of that one and the rise of a new one. The rise of horseshoe crabs is a good example, with obvious ties from trilobites to what they are today.
Still I really appreciate these dabates. Check your ratings.
I think you will be interested in the information on the present day evidence of the evolution of new a species when I post it.
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Since we depend on an abundance of functioning ecosystems to cleanse our water, enrich our soil and manufacture the very air we breathe, biodiversity is clearly not an inheritance to be discarded carelessly - Edward O. Wilson 1992
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