Home | Community | Message Board


SporeworksPlease support our sponsors.

Community >> Political Discussion

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! Please login or register to post messages and view our members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, encrypted messages, file attachments, board customizations, and much more!

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next >  [ show all ]
Invisibledanknugz81
spiralingdownward
Male


Registered: 02/22/08
Posts: 773
Multinationals Make Billions In Profit Out of Growing Global Food Crisis
    #8364438 - 05/05/08 09:49 AM (6 months, 24 days ago)

profiting off the starvation of others, FTW

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/05/04/8710/

Quote:


Multinationals Make Billions In Profit Out of Growing Global Food Crisis
Speculators blamed for driving up price of basic foods as 100 million face severe hunger
by Geoffrey Lean

Giant agribusinesses are enjoying soaring earnings and profits out of the world food crisis which is driving millions of people towards starvation, The Independent on Sunday can reveal. And speculation is helping to drive the prices of basic foodstuffs out of the reach of the hungry.0504 02 1 2

The prices of wheat, corn and rice have soared over the past year driving the world’s poor - who already spend about 80 per cent of their income on food - into hunger and destitution.

The World Bank says that 100 million more people are facing severe hunger. Yet some of the world’s richest food companies are making record profits. Monsanto last month reported that its net income for the three months up to the end of February this year had more than doubled over the same period in 2007, from $543m (£275m) to $1.12bn. Its profits increased from $1.44bn to $2.22bn.

Cargill’s net earnings soared by 86 per cent from $553m to $1.030bn over the same three months. And Archer Daniels Midland, one of the world’s largest agricultural processors of soy, corn and wheat, increased its net earnings by 42 per cent in the first three months of this year from $363m to $517m. The operating profit of its grains merchandising and handling operations jumped 16-fold from $21m to $341m.

Similarly, the Mosaic Company, one of the world’s largest fertiliser companies, saw its income for the three months ending 29 February rise more than 12-fold, from $42.2m to $520.8m, on the back of a shortage of fertiliser. The prices of some kinds of fertiliser have more than tripled over the past year as demand has outstripped supply. As a result, plans to increase harvests in developing countries have been hit hard.

The Food and Agriculture Organisation reports that 37 developing countries are in urgent need of food. And food riots are breaking out across the globe from Bangladesh to Burkina Faso, from China to Cameroon, and from Uzbekistan to the United Arab Emirates.

Benedict Southworth, director of the World Development Movement, called the escalating earnings and profits “immoral” late last week. He said that the benefits of the food price increases were being kept by the big companies, and were not finding their way down to farmers in the developing world.

The soaring prices of food and fertilisers mainly come from increased demand. This has partly been caused by the boom in biofuels, which require vast amounts of grain, but even more by increasing appetites for meat, especially in India and China; producing 1lb of beef in a feedlot, for example, takes 7lbs of grain.

World food stocks at record lows, export bans and a drought in Australia have contributed to the crisis, but experts are also fingering food speculation. Professor Bob Watson - chief scientist at the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, who led the giant International Assessment of Agricultural Science and Technology for Development - last week identified it as a factor.

Index-fund investment in grain and meat has increased almost fivefold to over $47bn in the past year, concludes AgResource Co, a Chicago-based research firm. And the official US Commodity Futures Trading Commission held special hearings in Washington two weeks ago to examine how much speculators were helping to push up food prices.

Cargill says that its results “reflect the cumulative effect of having invested more than $18bn in fixed and working capital over the past seven years to expand our physical facilities, service capabilities, and knowledge around the world”.

The revelations are bound to increase outrage over multinational companies following last week’s disclosure that Shell and BP between them recorded profits of £14bn in the first three months of the year - or £3m an hour - on the back of rising oil prices. Shell promptly attracted even greater condemnation by announcing that it was pulling out of plans to build the world’s biggest wind farm off the Kent coast.

World leaders are to meet next month at a special summit on the food crisis, and it will be high on the agenda of the G8 summit of the world’s richest countries in Hokkaido, Japan, in July.

Additional research by Vandna Synghal




Edited by danknugz81 (05/05/08 10:00 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me!  Notify Moderator   Ignore User 
InvisibleLuddite
fossil fool
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 1,756
Re: Multinationals Make Billions In Profit Out of Growing Global Food Crisis [Re: danknugz81]
    #8365368 - 05/05/08 03:09 PM (6 months, 24 days ago)

Quote:


The Food and Agriculture Organisation reports that 37 developing countries are in urgent need of food. And food riots are breaking out across the globe from Bangladesh to Burkina Faso, from China to Cameroon, and from Uzbekistan to the United Arab Emirates.





Islam and communism are causing these people to starve.


--------------------
http://www.protestwarrior.com/
http://www.thepeoplescube.com
http://www.geocities.com/sciliterature/Climate.htm




Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me!  Notify Moderator   Ignore User 
InvisibleLuddite
fossil fool
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 1,756
Re: Multinationals Make Billions In Profit Out of Growing Global Food Crisis [Re: danknugz81]
    #8365708 - 05/05/08 04:45 PM (6 months, 24 days ago)

The fact that US companies are so successful and people in Islamic, communist and African (inferior race) countries are starving clearly shows the superiority of the American system and shows why we have to keep bombing and invading countries run by evil doers to liberate those countries.



--------------------
http://www.protestwarrior.com/
http://www.thepeoplescube.com
http://www.geocities.com/sciliterature/Climate.htm




Edited by Luddite (05/05/08 04:48 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me!  Notify Moderator   Ignore User 
InvisibleJRayV
guy on the couch
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 523
Loc: Kentucky
Re: Multinationals Make Billions In Profit Out of Growing Global Food Crisis [Re: Luddite]
    #8365989 - 05/05/08 06:20 PM (6 months, 24 days ago)

Lets hope the Chinese don't go hungry.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me!  Notify Moderator   Ignore User 
InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
Scholar


Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 2,328
Re: Multinationals Make Billions In Profit Out of Growing Global Food Crisis [Re: Luddite]
    #8366624 - 05/05/08 09:13 PM (6 months, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Islam and communism are causing these people to starve.




Not that you care, but just to provide some insight; the solid majority of malnourished people in the world are in nations that are net exporters of agricultural products (i.e. they have embraced "free trade"). India & Brazil are #1 & #2 (in terms of pure numbers, I don't know about proportionality). Regardless, neoliberalism isn't feeding hungry people.

I have no idea how some people justify cultivating large amounts of soy (which is also a driving force behind the destruction of the Amazonian rainforest) for export to chicken factories in Europe, while millions in that nation (Brazil) go hungry, instead of growing grains for to meet the nutritional needs of impoverished people living there. One example (out of many) that disproves the notion that there are no losers when one party makes money 'legally'* (as was suggested in a link Phred posted the other day).

* Given that what is 'legal' is whatever the party with the most guns & willing to use violence to get their way says is 'legal', from a philosophical standpoint what that party says is legal has no ethical bearing on the situation & is not a valid justification of this system of 'legality' in & of itself. Given the nature of this site, though, most people should be able to rather easily comprehend this truth.


--------------------
"Every part of this earth is sacred to my people. Every pine needle, every sandy shore, every humming insect is holy... We are part of the earth and it is part of us... The earth does not belong to man; man belongs to the earth." - Chief Seattle

"...the role our nation has taken... of those who make peaceful revolution impossible by refusing to give up the privileges and the pleasures that come from the immense profits of overseas investments... we as a nation must undergo a radical revolution of values... When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights, are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, extreme materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered." - Martin Luther King Jr.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me!  Notify Moderator   Ignore User 
OfflinePhredM
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 10,932
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 5 hours, 14 minutes
Re: Multinationals Make Billions In Profit Out of Growing Global Food Crisis [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #8366673 - 05/05/08 09:21 PM (6 months, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Not that you care, but just to provide some insight; the solid majority of malnourished people in the world are in nations that are net exporters of agricultural products (i.e. they have embraced "free trade"). India & Brazil are #1 & #2 (in terms of pure numbers, I don't know about proportionality). Regardless, neoliberalism isn't feeding hungry people.




The solid majority of malnourished people in the world are in India and Brazil? Source, please.

Quote:

I have no idea how some people justify cultivating large amounts of soy (which is also a driving force behind the destruction of the Amazonian rainforest) for export to chicken factories in Europe, while millions in that nation (Brazil) go hungry, instead of growing grains for to meet the nutritional needs of impoverished people living there.




Please justify for us the morality of forcefully compelling someone to grow on his own land anything other than what he wishes to grow.


Phred


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me!  Notify Moderator    
InvisibleLuddite
fossil fool
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 1,756
Re: Multinationals Make Billions In Profit Out of Growing Global Food Crisis [Re: Phred]
    #8370070 - 05/06/08 06:29 PM (6 months, 23 days ago)

Africa, the welfare continent

Isn't it bad enough that we White Americans have to support American blacks with our hard-earned money? President Bush thinks that we should also be doing more to support African blacks.

At a time when our own food prices are jumping upwards and the average family struggles under high taxes and a broken economy, we are pledging almost a billion new dollars to African charity.

How about this for an idea: expect the blacks to do the bare minimum requirement for being a living being: feed themselves!

http://whyblackssuck.blogspot.com/2008/05/africa-welfare-continent.html


--------------------
http://www.protestwarrior.com/
http://www.thepeoplescube.com
http://www.geocities.com/sciliterature/Climate.htm




Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me!  Notify Moderator   Ignore User 
InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
Scholar


Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 2,328
Re: Multinationals Make Billions In Profit Out of Growing Global Food Crisis [Re: Phred]
    #8370866 - 05/06/08 09:12 PM (6 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Please justify for us the morality of forcefully compelling someone to grow on his own land anything other than what he wishes to grow.




When the land was taken by theft (through colonialism), & does not serve the needs of the people, then land reform is justified... except, of course, to those profiting from injustice.

I was wrong on Brazil, but India is number one with ~200,000,000 as of the last five years according to the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations. that doesn't change the fact, though, that up to 15,000,000 are malnourished in Brazil while land is devoted to growing for soy for chickens on another continent.


--------------------
"Every part of this earth is sacred to my people. Every pine needle, every sandy shore, every humming insect is holy... We are part of the earth and it is part of us... The earth does not belong to man; man belongs to the earth." - Chief Seattle

"...the role our nation has taken... of those who make peaceful revolution impossible by refusing to give up the privileges and the pleasures that come from the immense profits of overseas investments... we as a nation must undergo a radical revolution of values... When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights, are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, extreme materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered." - Martin Luther King Jr.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me!  Notify Moderator   Ignore User 
InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
Scholar


Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 2,328
Re: Multinationals Make Billions In Profit Out of Growing Global Food Crisis [Re: Luddite]
    #8370880 - 05/06/08 09:15 PM (6 months, 23 days ago)

Heavily-subsidized U.S. grains have ruined local & regional grain production throughout Africa. The policies you support do not have a net positive impact on Africa. If you believe they do, then you likely also believe that their slavery in the Americas was also a benevolent thing to do.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me!  Notify Moderator   Ignore User 
OfflinePhredM
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 10,932
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 5 hours, 14 minutes
Re: Multinationals Make Billions In Profit Out of Growing Global Food Crisis [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #8370954 - 05/06/08 09:28 PM (6 months, 23 days ago)

Quote:

When the land was taken by theft (through colonialism), & does not serve the needs of the people, then land reform is justified...




You were speaking of soy being grown in Brazil. Are you saying the land the average Brazilian farmer owns isn't really his land at all, that it's someone else's land? Whose land is it, if not the Brazilian farmer who holds the deed?



Phred


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me!  Notify Moderator    
InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
Scholar


Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 2,328
Re: Multinationals Make Billions In Profit Out of Growing Global Food Crisis [Re: Phred]
    #8371038 - 05/06/08 09:45 PM (6 months, 23 days ago)

By "average Brazilian farmer", you are giving the mistaken impression that there are large amounts of small farms there instead of the actual situation, a large majority of farmland being controlled by a small minority (who themselves don't even usually work it, but pay landless peasants pennies to do the real labor). It is my belief, consistent with my historic & cultural values, that the land belongs first & foremost to all who live on it, & to the ones who work it to grow & harvest agricultural products, for the nutritional needs of the local population, which were traditionally met at open markets where all manner of goods were traded by those who produced them.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me!  Notify Moderator   Ignore User 
OfflinePhredM
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 10,932
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 5 hours, 14 minutes
Re: Multinationals Make Billions In Profit Out of Growing Global Food Crisis [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #8371391 - 05/06/08 11:13 PM (6 months, 23 days ago)

Get your argument straight. First you were blaming all this on colonial theft of land. Seeing as how this colonization took place half a millennium ago, the logical conclusion to draw is that you believe the land rightfully belonged to Brazilian primitives -- few if any of whom did any farming at all. They were hunter-gatherers when the Portuguese arrived.

So are you saying these farms rightfully belong to the descendants of the blowgun wielding natives of AD 1508 or of the descendants of Portuguese settlers of 1550 or the descendants of slaves imported by the Portuguese settlers of 1550?



Phred


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me!  Notify Moderator    
InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
Scholar


Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 2,328
Re: Multinationals Make Billions In Profit Out of Growing Global Food Crisis [Re: Phred]
    #8372212 - 05/07/08 08:21 AM (6 months, 22 days ago)

Yes, make false statement to discredit what I am advocating (it happens a lot around here). Although I didn't say it in my last post, I've always been an advocate of land reform in neocolonialist states (just because foreign powers withdraw from a place doesn't mean their domination & exploitation does, with the aid of the ruling classes they set-up/empowered) by redistributing land of wealthy landowners to the landless peasants who work the land. Although I'm not going to get into the specifics of how it would work, peasants would get their own land, & small farmers presently would keep theirs. Any degree of socialism/collectivization would only come from the desires of the farmers, not forced by government (small farms were the basis of agriculture under the New Economic policy initiated by Lenin after the Russian Civil War, which led to record levels of grain production for the short time that it was in place, before Stalin consolidated power & initiated the forced collectivization that resulted in millions of deaths).

Read The Wretched of the Earth by Frantz Fanon for elaboration on the aspirations of the nationalist bourgeois... Zimbabwe after independence under Robert Mugabe is a perfect example of this... & also for elaboration on the previous point of neocolonialist domination although the colonialist/imperialist armies have withdrawn (for the most part, anyways), although this second one is pretty obvious for anyone who makes even a slight attempt to understand it.

Nevertheless, what it comes down to is whether fertile land, distributed justly, in a given area should be used to meet the nutritional needs of the people living in that given area, or if it should be placed under the control of a small minority from a ruling class & put to use to further their profits interests. If this means growing for export (whether coffee or soy or whatever) to maximize profits while millions are malnourished & suffer the consequences & illnesses & diseases of this, & plenty also starve, even though it is very easily possible to feed them sufficiently (& still make a modest profit). The tragedy of this is that oftentimes those whose work the land, the landless farmers (& their families), are the ones who suffer from hunger as much as any other group, as they can't afford the crops they produce. This breeds government dependence (the same kind of dependence which Luddite ignorantly assumes is a net negative, a burden, to U.S. corporate/government interests, when it is actually the exact opposite), which in turn serves as a form of control as the peasants now know that revolting very likely means that their families starve. If anyone believes the latter (about maximizing profits no matter the social consequences), then I have no interests in having a conversation with them about global agriculture under neoliberalism because it's not that one is right & the other is wrong, but that they have fundamentally & complete incompatible values, priorities & worldviews.

P.S. Because I'm often stereotyped as being "pro-government welfare", I must point out that the system I advocate of small farmers being able to produce grains for local consumption in the 'Third world' cuts out government bureaucracy & the dependence it fosters. U.S. "food aid" (with very few exceptions) is not only a form of control over the societies of others, it is an immense, centralized profit-making endeavors on the homefront, as well. From the farmers (& more & more the corporations) who receive government subsidies that amount well into the billions to the trucking companies who haul it to the ports where workers load it & then crews transport it across the oceans or to Central & South America, & all the bureaucracy that exists on both ends (which is often very, very corrupt in the third-world countries where it arrives, & often is adequately distributed, assuming there is enough to begin with, which isn't always the case), & the enormous waste of fossil fuel & environmental damage it causes... it is a massive, highly-centralized, government-controlled & initiated profit-making enterprise.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me!  Notify Moderator   Ignore User 
OfflinePhredM
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 10,932
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 5 hours, 14 minutes
Re: Multinationals Make Billions In Profit Out of Growing Global Food Crisis [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #8373129 - 05/07/08 01:31 PM (6 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Yes, make false statement to discredit what I am advocating (it happens a lot around here).




What, you can't even keep track of your own statements? Let's review, shall we?

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace: I have no idea how some people justify cultivating large amounts of soy (which is also a driving force behind the destruction of the Amazonian rainforest) for export to chicken factories in Europe, while millions in that nation (Brazil) go hungry, instead of growing grains for to meet the nutritional needs of impoverished people living there.

Phred: Please justify for us the morality of forcefully compelling someone to grow on his own land anything other than what he wishes to grow.

EntheogenicPeace: When the land was taken by theft (through colonialism), & does not serve the needs of the people, then land reform is justified...

Phred: So are you saying these farms rightfully belong to the descendants of the blowgun wielding natives of AD 1508 or of the descendants of Portuguese settlers of 1550 or the descendants of slaves imported by the Portuguese settlers of 1550?






Here's the standard Commie "debate" ploy you're attempting to get us to buy:

Since you can't come up with any logical, rational, or moral reason why a farmer should be forced to grow on his own land anything other than what he chooses to grow, your attempt to dodge this inconvenient truth is to claim (with no justification whatsoever) that the farm isn't really his at all: that the farm really belongs to someone else. This "someone else" is left unnamed, but the logical implication is that the real owner of his farm is "The People" and the representative of The People is the State, therefore the farmer must grow whatever the State decrees.

As for the "colonialism" dodge, there are few if any farms anywhere on the planet located on sites where the descendants of the original inhabitants remain. Where are the Babylonians? The Taino Indians? The Habbukites? Your "colonialism" ploy (often combined with the "imperialism" ploy) is nothing more than a shabby attempt at rejecting the legitimate claims of a farmer whose ancestors homesteaded and cleared unproductive jungle or scrubland and turned it into a tool for the production of goods useful to humans (food). Your claim is that since at some point in the distant past, someone unrelated to this farmer may have killed a possum with a blowgun on that land, or chased a deer across what is now the Back Forty, or picked a handful of wild blackberries on his way to the next watering hole where bison gathered, that farm belongs to The Collective until the end of time.

This position is, of course, absurd.



Phred


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me!  Notify Moderator    
InvisibleLuddite
fossil fool
 User Gallery

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 1,756
Re: Multinationals Make Billions In Profit Out of Growing Global Food Crisis [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #8373562 - 05/07/08 03:24 PM (6 months, 22 days ago)

Chemical Lobotomy: When the land was taken by theft (through colonialism), & does not serve the needs of the people, then land reform is justified...

What if that group of Native Americans stole the land from another group? What if this happened hundreds of times all the way back 10 - 15 thousand years when the first Native Americans reached that land? How would an international court in your fantasy world rule on this?


--------------------
http://www.protestwarrior.com/
http://www.thepeoplescube.com
http://www.geocities.com/sciliterature/Climate.htm




Edited by Luddite (05/07/08 03:25 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me!  Notify Moderator   Ignore User 
InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
Scholar


Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 2,328
Re: Multinationals Make Billions In Profit Out of Growing Global Food Crisis [Re: Phred]
    #8374271 - 05/07/08 06:27 PM (6 months, 22 days ago)

I will let all here read my posts (& yours) & decide for themselves if the global agriculture system is working sufficiently. If you feel like making an insightful & articulate post in defense of the status quo, where stuffing chickens with food to get them as fat as possible in highly-confined areas is more important than seeing to it that millions (including many who work the land) don't have enough to eat, then please do so & everyone can read it & decide for themselves.

I would hope that a majority at a site such as this one would reject the notion that what is taken by overwhelming force & maintained by force for one's own benefit to the extreme detriment of many, many others is a solid basis for societal organization. If nothing else, your posts thus far have given everyone reading them a blueprint for perpetual war based on insatiable greed.

Regardless of whatever you post, I'm no longer going to respond in this thread. I've presented facts on malnutrition, global agricultural economics & unjust land distribution. I would be interested to hear what others think on this in light of this present reality throughout the world, & if they believe in feeding the hungry who are willing to work, what changes they would advocate to accomplish this.

For anyone who actually cares about Brazil & malnutrition in the world, here is a brief overview that hits on the central point from simply a journalistic standpoint:

Malnutrition hits Brazil Indians

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4320941.stm

Here's the story referenced in the above article (there are more about it one the site, also):

Brazil moves to halt farm clashes

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3443331.stm

And a good one I was surprised to find about the Landless Worker's Movement:

Living with Brazil's landless

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2940709.stm



Edited by EntheogenicPeace (05/07/08 08:04 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me!  Notify Moderator   Ignore User 
InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
Scholar


Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 2,328
Re: Multinationals Make Billions In Profit Out of Growing Global Food Crisis [Re: Phred]
    #8374416 - 05/07/08 07:01 PM (6 months, 22 days ago)

One thing about your logic & values system (not about agriculture): Since the U.S. government "worked" (well, it didn't... it sent other people's children to do that) to topple Saddam Hussein's government, it must now be the owner of Iraq & its resources. If it wants to use them in a way that screws the economic needs & aspirations of the majority there, then so be it; it did the "work" & now owns it & can decide for itself what it wants to do. Nobody has a right to tell it otherwise. If it also wants to send other people's children to do the work to topple the Iranian theocracy, then it will also assume control there & own the place & run it how it sees fit. Syria? Cuba? Venezuela? Same thing. Therefore, any aggressor anywhere in the world, since it "worked" to invade & occupy others, now owns the place(s) & has a right to run it how it sees fit. The statement that "war is the health of the state" applies perfectly here.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me!  Notify Moderator   Ignore User 
InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
Scholar


Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 2,328
Re: Multinationals Make Billions In Profit Out of Growing Global Food Crisis [Re: Luddite]
    #8374565 - 05/07/08 07:33 PM (6 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

What if that group of Native Americans stole the land from another group? What if this happened hundreds of times all the way back 10 - 15 thousand years when the first Native Americans reached that land? How would an international court in your fantasy world rule on this?




I'm not going to go into the history of indigenous people in the Western Hemisphere (both the positives & the negatives) since I've already done that at length in other threads before & it serves no relevance to to the 15,000,000 malnourished in Brazil or the 200,000,000 in India while these nations are year-after-year net agricultural exporters. Those statistics are for the present & material world, not a fantasy one. I've disproved your ridiculous assertions about U.S. "aid" (in Africa specifically) being motivated by altruism & being a net burden on U.S. economic interests, & you have no coherent or intelligent response to this for obvious reasons.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me!  Notify Moderator   Ignore User 
OfflinePhredM
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 10,932
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 5 hours, 14 minutes
Re: Multinationals Make Billions In Profit Out of Growing Global Food Crisis [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #8374857 - 05/07/08 08:37 PM (6 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

I will let all here read my posts (& yours) & decide for themselves if the global agriculture system is working sufficiently.




This has nothing to do with the "global agricultural system" and everything to do with what powers governments may and may not exercise over their constituents. Your position - stripped of all its cover - is that a farmer may not grow what he wishes to grow on his own land. Your only justification for this bizarre position is that the farm doesn't really belong to the farmer, but to The Collective, therefore he must grow whatever they decree he must grow, or else.

Quote:

If you feel like making an insightful & articulate post...




And why must I be held to a higher standard than you?

Quote:

...in defense of the status quo, where stuffing chickens with food to get them as fat as possible in highly-confined areas is more important than seeing to it that millions (including many who work the land) don't have enough to eat, then please do so & everyone can read it & decide for themselves.




Do those who work the land receive a salary or don't they? If they do, I fail to see the problem. If they don't, I am in favor of their government prosecuting their employers to the full extent of the law. What more do you want?

Quote:

I would hope that a majority at a site such as this one would reject the notion that what is taken by overwhelming force & maintained by force...




Such as farmland seized by The Collective from its rightful owner because The Collective believes it is better to use that farmland to grow wheat than soy? On this we are in agreement. The farmer must be protected from having his land seized from him.

Quote:

If nothing else, your posts thus far have given everyone reading them a blueprint for perpetual war based on insatiable greed.




Dude, put down the meth pipe and back away from it slowly. My posts in no way shape or form express anything anywhere close to that.

Quote:

Regardless of whatever you post, I'm no longer going to respond in this thread.




That's a shame.

Quote:

I've presented facts on malnutrition, global agricultural economics & unjust land distribution.




Too bad you haven't answered my question. But hey.... whaddya gonna do?





Phred


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me!  Notify Moderator    
OfflinePhredM
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 10,932
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 5 hours, 14 minutes
Re: Multinationals Make Billions In Profit Out of Growing Global Food Crisis [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #8374888 - 05/07/08 08:43 PM (6 months, 22 days ago)

Quote:

One thing about your logic & values system (not about agriculture): Since the U.S. government "worked" (well, it didn't... it sent other people's children to do that) to topple Saddam Hussein's government, it must now be the owner of Iraq & its resources.




Dude, I say again... put down the meth pipe. Nothing I have ever written in my years of posting in this forum comes anywhere close to lending itself to that insane interpretation. The US isn't the owner of Iraq or Iraq's resources.

Quote:

If it wants to use them in a way that screws the economic needs & aspirations of the majority there, then so be it; it did the "work" & now owns it & can decide for itself what it wants to do. Nobody has a right to tell it otherwise. If it also wants to send other people's children to do the work to topple the Iranian theocracy, then it will also assume control there & own the place & run it how it sees fit. Syria? Cuba? Venezuela? Same thing. Therefore, any aggressor anywhere in the world, since it "worked" to invade & occupy others, now owns the place(s) & has a right to run it how it sees fit. The statement that "war is the health of the state" applies perfectly here.




There are times when I really regret this forum has a no-flaming rule. This is one of those times, because I'm having an extremely difficult time coming up with some response to this truly astonishing chain of "reasoning" that can't be considered an insult. How about.... ummm...

That's certainly a unique way of looking at things.





Phred


--------------------


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me!  Notify Moderator    
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next >  [ show all ]

Community >> Political Discussion

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Global Trade is......
Psilocybeingzz
181 14 01/25/03 02:18 AM
by Evolving
* A look at global warming.