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 johnm214
 
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 6,965
Loc: Americas
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 Republican response to Obama on Medical Marijuana... WTF?
#8404572 - 05/15/08 09:21 AM (6 months, 14 days ago) |
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This is pretty weird.
Here's the republicans on Obama and medical marijuana. Do you think this helps or hurts them in general? I'm undecided, but think it hurts since most folks support medical marijuana at least in theory, but who knows.
In an important sense though, I agree w/ the republicans that the law should be enforced as written. Its hard to say it, cuz I'm for state's rights and all, but if there is a valid law, it should be enforced. I guess I"m not really educated on what justifications have traditionaly been used to avoid enforcing a bullshit law, but in some sense you have to have trust in the law. If Obama can ignore this law, than another president can ignore a law allowing the justice dept. to seek redress of minimum wage violations, or punish attacks on politically unpopular people.
I'm kinda undecided I guess.
RNC RESPONSE TO OBAMA COMMENTS ON MEDICAL MARIJUANA LAWS
WASHINGTON, May 14 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- RNC Communications
Director Danny Diaz released the following statement today:
"Barack Obama's pledge to stop Executive agencies from implementing
laws passed by Congress raises serious doubts about his understanding of
what the job of the President of the United States actually is. His refusal
to enforce the law reveals that Barack Obama doesn't have the experience
necessary to do the job of President, or that he fundamentally lacks the
judgment to carry out the most basic functions of the Executive Branch.
What other laws would Barack Obama direct federal agents not to enforce?"
OBAMA ON MEDICAL MARIJUANA LAWS
Obama Pledged To Stop DEA Raids On Oregon Medical Marijuana:
Obama Pledged To Stop The Drug Enforcement Administration's Raids On
Oregon Medical Marijuana Growers. Willamette Week: "Would you stop the Drug
Enforcement Administration's raids on Oregon medical marijuana grows?"
Obama: "I would because I think our federal agents have better things to
do, like catching criminals and preventing terrorism. The way I want to
approach the issue of medical marijuana is to base it on science. And if
there is sound science that supports the use of medical marijuana and if it
is controlled and prescribed in a way that other medicine is prescribed,
then it's something we should consider." (James Pitkin, "Six Minutes With
Barack," Willamette Week, 5/14/08)
But The Presidential Oath Of Office Requires The President To
"Preserve, Protect And Defend The Constitution Of The United States":
The Presidential Oath Of Office, As Specified In Article II, Section I
Of The U.S. Constitution: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will
faithfully execute the Office of the President of the United States, and
will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the
Constitution of the United States." (U.S. Department Of State Website,
http://usinfo.state.gov/special/inauguration/inauguration_oath.html ,
Accessed 5/14/08)
And The Supreme Court Has Upheld Regulations On Medical Marijuana:
The Supreme Court Ruled In 2001 And 2005, Affirming The Authority Of
Congress To Regulate The Use Of Marijuana. "In 2001, the Supreme Court
affirmed Congress's 1970 judgment about marijuana in United States v.
Oakland Cannabis Buyers' Cooperative et al., 532 U.S. 438 (2001), which
held that, given the absence of medical usefulness, medical necessity is
not a defense to marijuana prosecution. Furthermore, in Gonzales v. Raich,
125 S.Ct. 2195 (2005), the Supreme Court reaffirmed that the authority of
Congress to regulate the use of potentially harmful substances through the
federal Controlled Substances Act includes the authority to regulate
marijuana of a purely intrastate character, regardless of a state law
purporting to authorize 'medical' use of marijuana." (U.S. Drug Enforcement
Administration Website, http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/marijuana_position.html ,
Accessed 5/14/08)
Paid for by the Republican National Committee. Not authorized by any
candidate or candidate's committee.
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/05-14-2008/0004813895&EDATE=
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afoaf
CEO DBK?
Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,305
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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Re: Republican response to Obama on Medical Marijuana... WTF? [Re: johnm214]
#8404583 - 05/15/08 09:24 AM (6 months, 14 days ago) |
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moronic
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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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JRayV
guy on the couch
Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 523
Loc: Kentucky
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Re: Republican response to Obama on Medical Marijuana... WTF? [Re: johnm214]
#8404721 - 05/15/08 10:09 AM (6 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will
faithfully execute the Office of the President of the United States, and
will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the
Constitution of the United States."
Has our current president or past presidents lived up to this?
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 Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 16,806
Loc: Caribbean
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Re: Republican response to Obama on Medical Marijuana... WTF? [Re: johnm214]
#8405190 - 05/15/08 12:41 PM (6 months, 14 days ago) |
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> but if there is a valid law, it should be enforced.
I disagree. The executive branch refusing to enforce a bad law is a check against congress. The judicial branch refusing to take an arrest to trial is another check against congress.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 6,965
Loc: Americas
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Re: Republican response to Obama on Medical Marijuana... WTF? [Re: Seuss]
#8405202 - 05/15/08 12:45 PM (6 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said:
> but if there is a valid law, it should be enforced.
I disagree. The executive branch refusing to enforce a bad law is a check against congress. The judicial branch refusing to take an arrest to trial is another check against congress.
Yeah, I suppose I can agree with that, hence my rambling above.
I gues the issue for me is discriminatory prosecution shouldn't be allowed. I think it would be fine if the president issued an order such as they do in the netherlands, my understanding anyways, that certain crimes will not be prosecuted. Then there is little chance of politically unsavorable people getting worse treatment.
There is always prosecutorial discretion, at least this way its more transparant.
If Barack took a stand on the commerce clause that would be cool, but that would never happen for obvious reasons.
Still he could perhaps claim that the ninth and tenth amendments preclude federal intervention in state-legal medical issues and this would at once placate the liberals and some conservatives/libertarians.
Edited by johnm214 (05/15/08 03:52 PM)
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Yossarian22
Stranger
Registered: 09/12/07
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Re: Republican response to Obama on Medical Marijuana... WTF? [Re: johnm214]
#8405246 - 05/15/08 12:59 PM (6 months, 14 days ago) |
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I can't believe the Republicans have the gall to complain that it's the Democrats that will be "ignoring the law". Have they never heard of a signing statement?
I think this is more desperate pandering bullshit: the problem is that they're pandering to a small minority. Most Americans support medical marijuana, and of those who oppose it, few are really adamant about seeing medical users go to jail. Those that vehemently oppose medical marijuana are probably not the kind of people that would ever consider voting Democrat anyway.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
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Re: Republican response to Obama on Medical Marijuana... WTF? [Re: Seuss]
#8405801 - 05/15/08 03:39 PM (6 months, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said:
> but if there is a valid law, it should be enforced.
I disagree. The executive branch refusing to enforce a bad law is a check against congress. The judicial branch refusing to take an arrest to trial is another check against congress.
So, wait a minute, you WANT an imperial presidency? And an imperial judiciary?
The executive and the judiciary are bound by the Constitution to enact the will of the legislature within the proscribed bounds of the Constitution.
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"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
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danknugz81
spiralingdownward
Registered: 02/22/08
Posts: 773
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Re: Republican response to Obama on Medical Marijuana... WTF? [Re: zappaisgod]
#8405923 - 05/15/08 04:15 PM (6 months, 14 days ago) |
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all he would have to do is tell the DEA to stop raiding in states where it is legal. i would hardly call that an imperial presidency.. an imperial presidency is what we have now!
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 12,198
Last seen: 4 hours, 39 minutes
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Re: Republican response to Obama on Medical Marijuana... WTF? [Re: danknugz81]
#8405994 - 05/15/08 04:36 PM (6 months, 14 days ago) |
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No, it is not. And why do you want the President to refuse to enforce the laws he is obliged to enforce? Careful of that slope, Eugene.
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"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
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fireworks_god
Sexy ButtMcDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: Republican response to Obama on Medical Marijuana... WTF? [Re: zappaisgod]
#8406173 - 05/15/08 05:29 PM (6 months, 14 days ago) |
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There's a difference between not enforcing a law that exists and enforcing a law that doesn't exist. Prioritizing utilization of resources is simply good management. Are we to assume that federal agencies have infinite capabilities of enforcing all laws? 
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Meet me in outer space
We could spend the night;
watch the earth come up 
I've grown tired of that place;
won't you come with me?
We could start again.
 
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 16,806
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 5 hours, 11 minutes
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Re: Republican response to Obama on Medical Marijuana... WTF? [Re: zappaisgod]
#8408326 - 05/16/08 04:57 AM (6 months, 13 days ago) |
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> So, wait a minute, you WANT an imperial presidency? And an imperial judiciary?
Damn, somebody caught on. 
I was hoping for a "The president has veto power as the check against congress..." type of reply, but you are close enough. Glad somebodies eyes are open.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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fireworks_god
Sexy ButtMcDanger
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Re: Republican response to Obama on Medical Marijuana... WTF? [Re: Seuss]
#8408342 - 05/16/08 05:08 AM (6 months, 13 days ago) |
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It still doesn't change the fact that the executive law enforcement agencies have a finite amount of resources and the President of the United States is not being anything but prudent to make an executive decision to better direct those resources for the well-being of the country. This certainly isn't unheard of and the fact that Obama appears to be a rational individual on this matter can't be held against him. He won't be violating any aspect of his Constitutional duties when he is President and directs them to stop busting medicinal marijuana users, if he holds to this.
--------------------
Meet me in outer space
We could spend the night;
watch the earth come up
I've grown tired of that place;
won't you come with me?
We could start again.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 16,806
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 5 hours, 11 minutes
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Re: Republican response to Obama on Medical Marijuana... WTF? [Re: fireworks_god]
#8408392 - 05/16/08 05:55 AM (6 months, 13 days ago) |
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> He won't be violating any aspect of his Constitutional duties when he is President and directs them to stop busting medicinal marijuana users, if he holds to this.
Really?
The oath of office:
Quote:
I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.
US Constitution, Article 2, Section 3:
Quote:
[The President] shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed, and shall commission all the officers of the United States.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 6,965
Loc: Americas
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Re: Republican response to Obama on Medical Marijuana... WTF? [Re: Seuss]
#8408456 - 05/16/08 06:49 AM (6 months, 13 days ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said:
> He won't be violating any aspect of his Constitutional duties when he is President and directs them to stop busting medicinal marijuana users, if he holds to this.
Really?
The oath of office:
Quote:
I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.
US Constitution, Article 2, Section 3:
Quote:
[The President] shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed, and shall commission all the officers of the United States.
I thought there was a decent body of law that said that the pres could ignore/choose enforcement measures, of course this is all judicial decree, so perhaps we shouldn't care for it.
As I've stated previously I'm conflicted on it, as you've made a fool of me again w/ your damn feigned positions  .
Perhaps I'll take a look at some of the court cases and see if there's something I'm missing.
To a large extent, I kinda agree w/ something Justice Ginsburg said re: row vs. wade, that it stiffled a growing democratic movement, and made the position harder to defend. I think in that vein that a President who faithfully executed the law but publicly decried it, could be a powerful voice for change. IF the president refused to execute the law, ignoring the precedent, then what impetus would there be for change? None, and I think it would set back rational drug policy.
But then again, if a president has the authority to issue blanket pardons, for everyone charged w/ federal crimes, shouldn't he have the authority to cease prosecutions/enforcement actions? Where is the consistancy in saying that a President must enforce the law, but then may nullify the judgment, though I don't know if this extends civilly per se. After all, Nixon was pardoned before he was even prosecuted, though I know that was criticized.
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phi1618
old hand
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Re: Republican response to Obama on Medical Marijuana... WTF? [Re: johnm214]
#8408534 - 05/16/08 08:00 AM (6 months, 13 days ago) |
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In practice, there's a shit-ton of laws on the books and not enough resources to enforce them all. Every administration defines the priorities for law enforcement - look at enforcement of environmental regulations over the last 8 years.
Saying "I'm not going to waste law enforcement resources enforcing a federal law in states that obviously don't want it" isn't a particularly original or revolutionary idea, because justice department priorities are set by every president.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 6,965
Loc: Americas
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Re: Republican response to Obama on Medical Marijuana... WTF? [Re: phi1618]
#8408591 - 05/16/08 08:35 AM (6 months, 13 days ago) |
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Fine, but raids on medical marijuana distributers and the landlords that rent to them can easily pay for the investigation and prosecution after fines and assett forfitures.
So you're really not drawing a meaningful line w/ this.
If you want to talk about "should the feds prosecute bar fights/murders", then maybe the resource question is relevant, but I fail to see how it is relvant in an area where the govenrment likely makes money, not loses it, even if they hire folks to just raid dispensaries. So what do you say bout that?
I have no problem w/ the govenrment allocating resources, but that is quite different from issuing a decree that certain buisnesses will not be prosecuted.
The best solution is undoubtedly for politicians to pull their heads out of their asses, as well as the public, and realize the feds have NO buisness in purely intrastate sales of marijuana to state residents unless scienter can be proved relating to exports.
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 Coaster
Psychosomatic Psychonaught
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Re: Republican response to Obama on Medical Marijuana... WTF? [Re: johnm214]
#8410628 - 05/16/08 07:17 PM (6 months, 13 days ago) |
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fivepointer
newbie
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Re: Republican response to Obama on Medical Marijuana... WTF? [Re: Coaster]
#8416955 - 05/18/08 03:58 PM (6 months, 11 days ago) |
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He should pledge to pardon all such cases as they arise. That would be entirely within Presidential authority.
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