|
 Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 10,047
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 3 hours, 12 minutes
|
 Fairness, idealism and other atrocities
#8360759 - 05/04/08 09:58 AM (2 months, 18 hours ago) |
|
|
The peerless PJ O'Rourke gives a commencement address for the ages at
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-op-orourke4-2008may04,0,288835.story?track=rss
Quote:
Fairness, idealism and other atrocities
Commencement advice you're unlikely to hear elsewhere.
By P.J. O'Rourke
May 4, 2008
Well, here you are at your college graduation. And I know what you're thinking: "Gimme the sheepskin and get me outta here!" But not so fast. First you have to listen to a commencement speech.
Don't moan. I'm not going to "pass the wisdom of one generation down to the next." I'm a member of the 1960s generation. We didn't have any wisdom.
We were the moron generation. We were the generation that believed we could stop the Vietnam War by growing our hair long and dressing like circus clowns. We believed drugs would change everything -- which they did, for John Belushi. We believed in free love. Yes, the love was free, but we paid a high price for the sex.
My generation spoiled everything for you. It has always been the special prerogative of young people to look and act weird and shock grown-ups. But my generation exhausted the Earth's resources of the weird. Weird clothes -- we wore them. Weird beards -- we grew them. Weird words and phrases -- we said them. So, when it came your turn to be original and look and act weird, all you had left was to tattoo your faces and pierce your tongues. Ouch. That must have hurt. I apologize.
So now, it's my job to give you advice. But I'm thinking: You're finishing 16 years of education, and you've heard all the conventional good advice you can stand. So, let me offer some relief:
The rest of the address is at the link. Click and enjoy.
Phred
--------------------
|
 EntheogenicPeace
Scholar
Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 2,115
|
Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: Phred]
#8360800 - 05/04/08 10:20 AM (2 months, 18 hours ago) |
|
|
Quote:
My generation spoiled everything for you.
Yeah, it's too bad U.S. militarism & imperialism came to an end by the late 60s. Oh, wait...
Quote:
But my generation exhausted the Earth's resources of the weird.
Get rid of 'of the weird', & the statement is pretty accurate to describe most of America's history, not limited to any one generation.
Already it is obvious that this is another statement by someone as deranged as Pat Buchanan who thinks that the relatively insignificant "counterculture" movement of the 1960s transformed America in a Communist state.
Quote:
In a free society, with the rule of law and property rights, no one loses when someone else gets rich.
Yeah, just exclude poor people around the world from that statement (it's not like they're a majority, anyways), & it might hold some truth.
Quote:
So, avoid politics if you can. But if you absolutely cannot resist, read the Bible for political advice...
I'm guessing he's referring to parts of the Old Testament about about conquering & enslaving heathens, not the moral teachings of Jesus Christ.
--------------------
"Every part of this earth is sacred to my people. Every pine needle, every sandy shore, every humming insect is holy... We are part of the earth and it is part of us... This we know. The earth does not belong to man; man belongs to the earth." -Chief Seattle
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 10,446
Last seen: 8 hours, 13 minutes
|
Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
#8360955 - 05/04/08 11:19 AM (2 months, 17 hours ago) |
|
|
Read the link. I believe the Bible passage he refers to is the commandment against coveting that which is your neighbors'. Something all you class warriors should remember. Envy is just greed without talent.
--------------------
"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
|
EntheogenicPeace
Scholar
Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 2,115
|
Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: zappaisgod]
#8360983 - 05/04/08 11:27 AM (2 months, 17 hours ago) |
|
|
Against coveting what belongs to others? If so, quite ironic that European peoples calling themselves "Christian" have always used the Bible to justify aggression, colonialism, economic exploitation, imperialism, neocolonialism & slavery. Like usual, it is more of their subjective, self-serving reading of the Bible to serve as a basis for their greed & belief in their own moral superiority... not an honest & exhaustive attempt to understand it fully & in context, especially not the teachings of Jesus Christ.
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 10,446
Last seen: 8 hours, 13 minutes
|
Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
#8361051 - 05/04/08 11:50 AM (2 months, 17 hours ago) |
|
|
As you may be aware, the commandments predate the teachings of Jesus Christ and are shared by the religions with the greatest number of adherents.
Do you intend to justify thuggish behavior by citing centuries of slights? There isn't one single group that can't cite some grievance or other. The Moors probably owe the Spanish some reparations, no? Perhaps you would set yourself up as the arbiter of valid grievances. And what an enlightened despot you would surely be.
--------------------
"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
|
Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 38,880
Loc: [life]now[/life]
Last seen: 4 hours, 56 minutes
|
Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: Phred]
#8361131 - 05/04/08 12:14 PM (2 months, 16 hours ago) |
|
|
Quote:
no one loses when someone else gets rich.
While I agree with most of what he says, the above is absurd. Perhaps if the money is made honestly, that is true.
If someone gets rich via dishonesty (ala Enron) or by taking what is yours (schmucks eminent domaining neighborhoods to build a new sports stadiums) people certainly do get hurt.
If he would have said that rationally acting men making money honestly hurts no one, I would agree totally.
Also, I don't agree with politically uninvolved thing. Being politically involved is how I'm going to make money.
--------------------
 Free Xbox 360 games, Takes about 10 minutes to complete
Here are the instructions on how to do so
What I've got so far:- Call of Duty 4 (Ordered 5/12, Received 5/15)
- 1 Year Subscription to Xbox Live Gold (Ordered 5/18, Received 5/22)
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 10,446
Last seen: 8 hours, 13 minutes
|
Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: Redstorm]
#8361164 - 05/04/08 12:24 PM (2 months, 16 hours ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Redstorm said:
Quote:
no one loses when someone else gets rich.
While I agree with most of what he says, the above is absurd. Perhaps if the money is made honestly, that is true.
Which is the vast majority of itQuote:
If someone gets rich via dishonesty (ala Enron) or by taking what is yours (schmucks eminent domaining neighborhoods to build a new sports stadiums) people certainly do get hurt.
There are laws against fraud. And theft and extortion. Sometimes they get caught and go to jail and lose everything. It doesn't make up, usually, but it works pretty well most of the time. And eminent domain is exactly the covetousness of the collectivist in action.Quote:
If he would have said that rationally acting men making money honestly hurts no one, I would agree totally.
The vast majority of people who make their money honestly isn't news. Only crooks are news. Thus the perception of the prevalence of thievery is skewed by the amount of attention it gets. Dogs biting and all that.Quote:
Also, I don't agree with politically uninvolved thing. Being politically involved is how I'm going to make money.
Good luck with that.
--------------------
"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
|
Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 38,880
Loc: [life]now[/life]
Last seen: 4 hours, 56 minutes
|
Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: zappaisgod]
#8361198 - 05/04/08 12:36 PM (2 months, 16 hours ago) |
|
|
I'm not sure how anything you said above conflicts with what I said. He said "no one" loses when someone gets rich. That is an absolute and obviously it is not correct.
Also, luck is for fools. I'd rather just do a good job and earn it.
--------------------
Free Xbox 360 games, Takes about 10 minutes to complete
Here are the instructions on how to do so
What I've got so far:- Call of Duty 4 (Ordered 5/12, Received 5/15)
- 1 Year Subscription to Xbox Live Gold (Ordered 5/18, Received 5/22)
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 10,446
Last seen: 8 hours, 13 minutes
|
Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: Redstorm]
#8361279 - 05/04/08 01:14 PM (2 months, 15 hours ago) |
|
|
Luck is the residue of design. You make your own luck. I can't think of any more cliches and it is sensible to ignore luck and not to count on getting any but it is definitely very real.
I think that his point was, and it certainly is mine, that getting rich is not, per se, a bad thing, as so many of the morons would have you believe. Obviously, killing or stealing your way to a fortune is another matter entirely.
I'm real curious. How do you think you're going to get rich through political involvement?
--------------------
"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
|
Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 38,880
Loc: [life]now[/life]
Last seen: 4 hours, 56 minutes
|
Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: zappaisgod]
#8361320 - 05/04/08 01:29 PM (2 months, 15 hours ago) |
|
|
Consulting work or government relations work for a corp. like Halliburton at first.
Then I'll get on the government dime eventually.
--------------------
Free Xbox 360 games, Takes about 10 minutes to complete
Here are the instructions on how to do so
What I've got so far:- Call of Duty 4 (Ordered 5/12, Received 5/15)
- 1 Year Subscription to Xbox Live Gold (Ordered 5/18, Received 5/22)
|
MushmanTheManic
AverageFrustrated Chump
Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,221
Last seen: 7 hours, 16 minutes
|
Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: Phred]
#8361577 - 05/04/08 03:02 PM (2 months, 13 hours ago) |
|
|
I lol'd.
--------------------
This is a signature.
|
Luddite
establishmentshill
Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 1,435
|
Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#8361977 - 05/04/08 04:59 PM (2 months, 11 hours ago) |
|
|
--------------------
http://www.protestwarrior.com/
http://www.thepeoplescube.com
http://michellemalkin.com/2005/11/01/unhinged-the-mugshot-collection/
  
|
daytripper23
Wanker
Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 1,309
|
Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#8362016 - 05/04/08 05:12 PM (2 months, 11 hours ago) |
|
|
Im not sure if this is things are done here, but I can assure you all, I am very sincere in my words.
I wonder how anyone can take anything useful from this guy's words.
He says ditch notions of idealism and fairness, which in the context of life in general, I agree with. I know that it is easy to become apathetic when one takes relativism too seriously.
But instead of leaving it at just that, he indicates the alternative to this is to become politically active.
Like I said I could certainly understand if he said "be active".
But he says become politically active, which means (I know I am being redundant) within the framework of politics, become active. Ultimately, "stand up for your rights" right?
Our entire political framework is based upon our "innate rights", and I can think of no better example of "ideals concerning fairness" than this.
Like I said, this might not be the style of this forum, a bit vague I guess. But understand I really can't be more specific until I get over a certain roadblock that this argument vaguely outlines.
|
The Tourist
Stranger
Registered: 04/10/08
Posts: 124
Last seen: 22 days, 7 hours
|
Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: zappaisgod]
#8362418 - 05/04/08 07:01 PM (2 months, 9 hours ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
I think that his point was, and it certainly is mine, that getting rich is not, per se, a bad thing, as so many of the morons would have you believe. Obviously, killing or stealing your way to a fortune is another matter entirely.
I won't say getting rich is bad. It's a choice, and it is what it is, just like every single other event in the universe. We all have ideas of "good" and "bad", and they are obviously extremely subjective, so they shouldn't be involved in this kind of debate. The real question would be to ask yourself what works best for the world.
Does getting rich work well? Or just work well for you?
Remember, it's fine by the universe's standards if you choose what's only good for you; I'm just asking you what you think.
Just for the record, I personally thought the article was disgusting. Keep the human separation coming baby!
|
The_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth
Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 10,989
Loc: Some Refugee Camp near Ch...
Last seen: 1 day, 14 hours
|
Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: Luddite]
#8362427 - 05/04/08 07:03 PM (2 months, 9 hours ago) |
|
|
What does the self-flagellating shiia Ashura festival have anything to do with this thread?
--------------------
sunshine said:
He was actually one of those caucasion-looking Mexicans, which made it really confusing. Half of me was into white power and the other half was like a recollection of days gone by.
|
johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 5,201
Loc: Americas
|
Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
#8363029 - 05/04/08 09:23 PM (2 months, 7 hours ago) |
|
|
What does anything Luddite post have to do with the thread its in?
Totally random, generally peppered with an insult towards delinquents and scores of irrelevant links in re: muslim slaughter/slaughtering.
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 19,937
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: Phred]
#8363132 - 05/04/08 09:47 PM (2 months, 7 hours ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Phred said:
The peerless PJ O'Rourke gives a commencement address for the ages at
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-op-orourke4-2008may04,0,288835.story?track=rss
Quote:
Fairness, idealism and other atrocities
Commencement advice you're unlikely to hear elsewhere.
By P.J. O'Rourke
May 4, 2008
Well, here you are at your college graduation. And I know what you're thinking: "Gimme the sheepskin and get me outta here!" But not so fast. First you have to listen to a commencement speech.
Don't moan. I'm not going to "pass the wisdom of one generation down to the next." I'm a member of the 1960s generation. We didn't have any wisdom.
We were the moron generation. We were the generation that believed we could stop the Vietnam War by growing our hair long and dressing like circus clowns. We believed drugs would change everything -- which they did, for John Belushi. We believed in free love. Yes, the love was free, but we paid a high price for the sex.
My generation spoiled everything for you. It has always been the special prerogative of young people to look and act weird and shock grown-ups. But my generation exhausted the Earth's resources of the weird. Weird clothes -- we wore them. Weird beards -- we grew them. Weird words and phrases -- we said them. So, when it came your turn to be original and look and act weird, all you had left was to tattoo your faces and pierce your tongues. Ouch. That must have hurt. I apologize.
So now, it's my job to give you advice. But I'm thinking: You're finishing 16 years of education, and you've heard all the conventional good advice you can stand. So, let me offer some relief:
The rest of the address is at the link. Click and enjoy.
Phred
I'm glad you liked that non-sense. You can stick your head back in the sand now.
--------------------
What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
|
Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 10,047
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 3 hours, 12 minutes
|
Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: Icelander]
#8363163 - 05/04/08 09:54 PM (2 months, 6 hours ago) |
|
|
I did enjoy it. I enjoyed it very much. PJ O'Rourke is a funny man. Wise as well.
I'm glad you are glad.
Phred
--------------------
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 19,937
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: Phred]
#8363171 - 05/04/08 09:55 PM (2 months, 6 hours ago) |
|
|
We have very different ideas of what wisdom entails. 
--------------------
What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
|
Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 10,047
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 3 hours, 12 minutes
|
Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: Icelander]
#8363188 - 05/04/08 10:00 PM (2 months, 6 hours ago) |
|
|
Well, I should say so... if you reject the Peej!
Phred
--------------------
|
|
login or 
register to post messages and view our members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, encrypted messages, file attachments, board customizations, and much more!
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit 
Reply 
Quote 
