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 PhanTomCat
Wildcat that Never Was....
 
Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,710
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 15 hours, 48 minutes
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 The FEAR of DEATH.....
#8538766 - 06/18/08 09:57 PM (5 months, 1 day ago) |
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I don't get it.... Honestly, I don't....
I have heard people here say that a lot of the ways we act and "reason" in life boils down to a fear of death as the cause, or some such....
I am not purposely singling you out  Icelander , but I have seen you say it quite a few times in your posts over the months/years....
This question isn't specifically for you only, It is just that your consistency about this topic sticks out in my mind at this moment....
Way before I ever found the Shroomery, I had a talk with my father, and he told me that he had had a deep fear of death, all of his life.....
My reply, "Why....?" To which I don't remember an answer that suitably explained the fear in a way that I could personally understand/relate....
I didn't get it then, and I don't get it now.... Death is as part of you as your shadow is....
I fear certain things IN life, but I have never feared death, nor understood why others do....
For that reason, I can't grok how the "fear for death" is the cause to how we act and think....
Eeehhhhhh.....? 
>^;;^<
P.S. Two points for the "had had" properly used in a sentence....!! 
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"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<
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 whatsgrimace
Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 128
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 Re: The FEAR of DEATH..... [Re: PhanTomCat]
#8538820 - 06/18/08 10:11 PM (5 months, 1 day ago) |
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One of the biggest things that may be keeping me from fully relinquishing my fear of death is the perpetual nagging fear that perhaps the Judeo-Christian view of the world is correct and that there is eternal damnation and hellfire waiting for me on the other side. Or something. I can't make sense of WHY that's even a consideration of mine, but it might just be that I grew up in a part of the world in a family that stressed the "truthfulness" of the Bible.
Actually, let's just set aside Judeo-Christianity. I recognize that I have no minute little trace of an idea of what happens after death. Is it a paradise? Pfft, hopefully, but not likely. I don't even like the idea of not existing at all. I don't like that reality will continue and I'll have no say in the alteration or participation of it after my death. There could be advances in knowledge that I'll never experience. I may never know how the world ends, etcetera.
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PhanTomCat
Wildcat that Never Was....
Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,710
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 15 hours, 48 minutes
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The talk with my father was actually about him finding God, and he said that he had nothing to fear anymore.....
So, I see the parallel that you reasoned....
But one could say that they feared tomorrow too, for the lack of knowing what events will happen the next day....
I don't have that fear, I think that what ever happens will happen, and I will deal with the situations as they come....
And that is sort of the way I think of death....
You can't stop what's coming....
>^;;^<
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"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<
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Cameron
perma-stone
Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 2,143
Loc: Canada
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Re: The FEAR of DEATH..... [Re: PhanTomCat]
#8538871 - 06/18/08 10:30 PM (5 months, 1 day ago) |
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Maybe some people are convinced that the world couldn't possibly continue without them?  I can only understand a fear of death as being a product of religious teachings preaching a lake of molten lava awaiting sinners (skewed religious teachings).
What I don't understand is why so many people are convinced that humans are the only special form of life whose destiny includes transcending this dimension and living on in some sort of 'spirit form' that might as well be called 'happy fun time' for all of the evidence backing it up.
I think it's the fact that we have too much free time on our hands.  Squirrels and turtles and blue jays and bats don't have the time to worry about what will happen when they are no longer functioning; they're too busy using the life they've got left.
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whatsgrimace
Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 128
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Re: The FEAR of DEATH..... [Re: PhanTomCat]
#8538872 - 06/18/08 10:30 PM (5 months, 1 day ago) |
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I often think about how I feel no regret about having a beginning, so why should I feel raw about the fact that I will have an end? I guess the answer is that now I have a developed ego that doesn't want to die.
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burgatory
sssssssssssssshit
Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 328
Last seen: 15 hours, 5 minutes
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Lack of connection with the Self causes fear, which isn't an emotion - it is what it is - confusion, static, nonsense.
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we must strive against all ill-formed resistance to attain the chalice of a higher spiritual awakening
There's nothing there.
"Dreams: at the bottom of them lies the merciless onslaught of reality."
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OrgoneConclusion
Oh, bee hive!
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 7,967
Loc: In the woods
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Re: The FEAR of DEATH..... [Re: PhanTomCat]
#8539674 - 06/19/08 04:45 AM (5 months, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
I don't get it....
What is there to get? Survival is only your body's prime directive.
Do you also fail to understand eating, sleeping, breathing and copulating?
Do you really want me to design a Swami 'Fear of Death' Challenge? You might not like it. It has to do with swimming nekked in shark-infested waters...
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What is the sound of one jaw snapping?
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mushbaby
Registered: 09/30/06
Posts: 2,039
Loc: on a hill
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I'm more likely to not do something due to fear of excruciating pain than fear of death.
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Maybe - and that's final.
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 2,210
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 1 day, 1 hour
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Re: The FEAR of DEATH..... [Re: Cameron]
#8540060 - 06/19/08 08:23 AM (5 months, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
Cameron said:
I can only understand a fear of death as being a product of religious teachings preaching a lake of molten lava awaiting sinners (skewed religious teachings).
Haha you've got it backwards, as far as I am concerned. I believe there is no afterlife. You get one life and you die and that is it. And that scares the crap out of me. I don't see how it wouldn't scare the crap out of anyone. An eternity in hell is less scary to me, conceptually, than an eternity in which you no longer exist.
If you fear anything, you should fear death. It is the only prospect that is really scary, to me. No longer being able to experience anything. No more thoughts. No more summer breezes. No more sex. No more love. No more joy. No more gluke bastid. No nothing.
I honestly don't see how anyone could be scared of anything and not be afraid of death.
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Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
- Thomas Paine
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 2,210
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 1 day, 1 hour
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Re: The FEAR of DEATH..... [Re: mushbaby]
#8540073 - 06/19/08 08:29 AM (5 months, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
mushbaby said:
I'm more likely to not do something due to fear of excruciating pain than fear of death.
So let's say you had malignant bone marrow cancer that for some weird reason was not painful at all. You could live your life normally, however there was a good chance that, on any given morning, you would painlessly drop dead due to the cancer.
And doctors offer you a cure. It is 100% effective and will cure you of cancer. However it is a bone marrow transplant, one of the more excruiating procedures known to humanity. It would last hours and be painful.
Are you telling me that you would rather drop dead than undergo the transplant?
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Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
- Thomas Paine
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mushbaby
Registered: 09/30/06
Posts: 2,039
Loc: on a hill
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Considering that you are only speaking of hours of excruciating pain vs death(something permanent), no. Obviously I'd choose life.
What I'm trying to say is that I'm not going to do something highly dangerous (say shark baiting) more out of a fear of the pain of an attack than a fear of actually dying.
BTW I've seen people die from cancer and it didn't look very painless.
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Maybe - and that's final.
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 2,210
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 1 day, 1 hour
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Re: The FEAR of DEATH..... [Re: mushbaby]
#8540360 - 06/19/08 10:43 AM (5 months, 1 day ago) |
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So you are afraid of pain, but would still take it over death.
In that case playing russian roulette while pointing a gun at your temple would be less scary than playing russian roulette while pointing a gun at your hand? Blowing your hand off would be just as permanent as blowing your head off...
So which one would you choose?
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Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
- Thomas Paine
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mushbaby
Registered: 09/30/06
Posts: 2,039
Loc: on a hill
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My choice would be not to play the game. That's the only way to win.
But I would rather my hand hurt than my head. I suffer occasionally from migraines and could almost see shooting myself in the head to make it stop hurting.
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Maybe - and that's final.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 10,305
Loc: PNW
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Re: The FEAR of DEATH..... [Re: PhanTomCat]
#8540473 - 06/19/08 11:23 AM (5 months, 1 day ago) |
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You might be interested in further reading on Death Anxiety. It is not likely to manifest directly, as in "I am afraid of dying," but rather indirectly in numerous guises. Ernest Becker's "Denial of Death" is an amazing book.
http://www.deathreference.com/A-Bi/Anxiety-and-Fear.html
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No man is free who is not master of himself.
~Epictetus.
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 2,210
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 1 day, 1 hour
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Re: The FEAR of DEATH..... [Re: Veritas]
#8540566 - 06/19/08 12:02 PM (5 months, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said:
You might be interested in further reading on Death Anxiety. It is not likely to manifest directly, as in "I am afraid of dying," but rather indirectly in numerous guises. Ernest Becker's "Denial of Death" is an amazing book.
At some point or another, I sort of came to the conclusion that every fear is just a smaller incarnation of a fear of death, the ultimate transition, the ultimate loss. I can't think of any type of fear that I experience that doesn't center around fear of harm, change, or uncertainty, or loss. This is really all based around death, isn't it? The great thing about this is that it really only gives you one fear to face. How can I bother getting hung up on losing friends or loved ones during my life when I will lose them all when I die? How can I get hung up on going bankrupt on life when I will lose all my wealth when I die? How can I get hung up on fearing pain or unpleasant experience when I have to face up to the fact that when I die I won't be able to experience anything at all? How can I get hung up on the fear of being attacked if I realize that it is just one of many ways in which my life is threatened?
So on and so forth.
--------------------
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
- Thomas Paine
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 10,305
Loc: PNW
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Exactly.  What Becker proposes is that we, as individuals AND as cultures, develop healthy ways to manage death anxiety. IMO, the first step must be acknowledging that it provides motivation for many (if not all) of our actions. Our newly (in evolutionary time) developed ability to recognize our mortality is not yet integrated with our caveman-brain tendency to fight or flee from threats. We cannot flee from death, but we certainly attempt to!
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No man is free who is not master of himself.
~Epictetus.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 23,382
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The FEAR of DEATH..... [Re: PhanTomCat]
#8540821 - 06/19/08 01:21 PM (5 months, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
PhanTomCat said:
I don't get it.... Honestly, I don't....
I have heard people here say that a lot of the ways we act and "reason" in life boils down to a fear of death as the cause, or some such....
I am not purposely singling you out Icelander , but I have seen you say it quite a few times in your posts over the months/years....
This question isn't specifically for you only, It is just that your consistency about this topic sticks out in my mind at this moment....
Way before I ever found the Shroomery, I had a talk with my father, and he told me that he had had a deep fear of death, all of his life.....
My reply, "Why....?" To which I don't remember an answer that suitably explained the fear in a way that I could personally understand/relate....
I didn't get it then, and I don't get it now.... Death is as part of you as your shadow is....
I fear certain things IN life, but I have never feared death, nor understood why others do....
For that reason, I can't grok how the "fear for death" is the cause to how we act and think....
Eeehhhhhh.....?
>^;;^<
P.S. Two points for the "had had" properly used in a sentence....!!
Let me ask you if you have ever really been close to death? Ever been in a war? Had a terminal disease? Fuck have you even ever been startled or slightly afraid for your saftey? Think on this.
I think you are in denial. This is common. Unconsciously you belive that while death is common to all it is not your time yet and never really will be. In other words you can't comprehend not existing. This is one of the most common forms that our death anxiety take to reassure us that we are safe in our personality structure/ego, which is scared shitless IMO/IME.
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
embrace death in all the ways it comes no matter how soft or hard. cruel ,tragic,weak,light, gentle, ect how ever. thats life
Edited by Icelander (06/19/08 01:25 PM)
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Cameron
perma-stone
Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 2,143
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
gluke bastid said:
Haha you've got it backwards, as far as I am concerned. I believe there is no afterlife. You get one life and you die and that is it. And that scares the crap out of me. I don't see how it wouldn't scare the crap out of anyone. An eternity in hell is less scary to me, conceptually, than an eternity in which you no longer exist.
I also don't believe in an afterlife, which is why I don't fear death. What is there to fear about actually being dead? There will be no I to experience the act of being dead, so it will be impossible to regret anything at all.
The only thing at this point that scares me about death is the slow process of aging that will eventually leave me weak and feeble, unable to participate in life to the degree that I have become accustomed. I'd imagine that by that point death would almost be a relief, like going to bed after a horrendously busy day.
If I were to find myself in front of a speeding car or hanging from the ledge of a ten-story building, of course I would make every effort to save myself, because I would like to get as much out of life as possible (might as well ). I don't think the adrenaline rush and the fight or flight response the body is conditioned to carry out should automatically be labeled as a fear of dieing, though. I think it's more like a preference to live another day, unless you're afraid of what will happen when you're no longer here. Life goes on, though, and if you've had a good run, why resent the greatest certainty we've got in life: that it will end?
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NothingIsReal
Stranger
Registered: 03/09/08
Posts: 147
Last seen: 14 hours, 5 minutes
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Quote:
gluke bastid said:
Quote:
Cameron said:
I can only understand a fear of death as being a product of religious teachings preaching a lake of molten lava awaiting sinners (skewed religious teachings).
Haha you've got it backwards, as far as I am concerned. I believe there is no afterlife. You get one life and you die and that is it. And that scares the crap out of me. I don't see how it wouldn't scare the crap out of anyone. An eternity in hell is less scary to me, conceptually, than an eternity in which you no longer exist.
If you fear anything, you should fear death. It is the only prospect that is really scary, to me. No longer being able to experience anything. No more thoughts. No more summer breezes. No more sex. No more love. No more joy. No more gluke bastid. No nothing.
I honestly don't see how anyone could be scared of anything and not be afraid of death.
Why are you afraid of not existing. Your brain lacks to exist aswell. You have no thought process. You feel no emotion. How could that possible be bad? It couldnt. You dont know you died, you dont know you lived. Sad to think that that is whats coming (if thats what you believe), but how is it scary? You wont know. That would be like being afraid of sleeping (if there was no such thing as dreams, because i guess dreams can be scary haha).
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Cameron
perma-stone
Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 2,143
Loc: Canada
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Re: The FEAR of DEATH..... [Re: Icelander]
#8540915 - 06/19/08 01:55 PM (5 months, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
I think you are in denial. This is common. Unconsciously you belive that while death is common to all it is not your time yet and never really will be. In other words you can't comprehend not existing. This is one of the most common forms that our death anxiety take to reassure us that we are safe in our personality structure/ego, which is scared shitless IMO/IME.
It must be a very well-structured reassurance, then, because I honestly can not see what there is to fear about putting a gun to my head right now and opting to re-enter the void a little early. The only thing that really keeps me grounded, even more so than the enjoyment of my own life, is the effect it would have on my family and friends.
Death, by my own hand, would be the ultimate inconsideration of everyone else's feelings (taking into account our strange relationship with death in western society in general), and I couldn't do that to people I care about, but a sudden accidental death would (IMO) not even leave me time to regret or accept death, just fade to black. Not existing will be a bit of a drag, but luckily I won't be there (or anywhere) to judge it as this or that.
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