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 Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 9,909
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Suicide Blame Game: Personal Responsibility Reaches A New Low
#8406863 - 05/15/08 08:29 PM (6 months, 4 days ago) |
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WTF! 20 years for being mean to a drooling moron on the internet. The way I see it, this is natural selection at its best.
And the mother of the moron? Why isn't SHE the one in trouble?
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Woman Indicted in MySpace Hoax Suicide
By Dan Whitcomb
LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A 49-year-old Missouri woman accused of pretending to be a love-struck teenage boy on MySpace and driving a 13-year-old girl to suicide with cruel messages was indicted on Thursday on federal charges.
Prosecutors say Lori Drew and others created the fake MySpace persona of a 16-year-old boy to woo neighbor Megan Meier for several weeks, then abruptly ended the relationship and said the world would be better off without her.
Meier's 2006 suicide by hanging, just hours after she read those final messages, made worldwide headlines and prompted calls for social networking sites like MySpace to crack down on cyber-bullying.
"This adult woman allegedly used the Internet to target a young teenage girl, with horrendous ramifications," U.S. Attorney Thomas O'Brien said in announcing the indictment in Los Angeles, where MySpace is based.
"Any adult who uses the Internet or a social gathering Web site to bully or harass another person, particularly a young teenage girl, needs to realize that their actions can have serious consequences," O'Brien said.
Experts said the indictment, which was handed down in Los Angeles after Missouri authorities declined to prosecute Drew, was a first of its kind and could stretch the bounds of the federal statute on which it was based.
"We are in uncharted waters here," University of Southern California law professor and former federal prosecutor Rebecca Lonergan told Reuters. "This case is unprecedented and it's also a very aggressive charging decision."
Lonergan said Drew was charged with accessing a protected computer to obtain information, a statute typically used against defendants who hack into government computers.
"While I think most people agree that it merits punishment to harass a young girl to the point where she commits suicide, it's not clear that this conduct is covered by this federal statute," she said.
A FICTIONAL BOY
Prosecutors say Drew, mother of a teenage girl who had a falling out with Meier, and several others created a profile for the fictional "Josh Evans," using the picture of an unwitting teenage boy.
They then contacted Meier, who lived four doors away in O'Fallon, Missouri, through MySpace as "Josh" and spent several weeks flirting with her before ending the relationship on October 15, 2006.
Several hours after the final message, Meier, who had argued with her mother over the relationship, hanged herself in the closet of her bedroom in a St. Louis suburb, still unaware that "Josh" did not exist.
The indictment charges that after Meier killed herself, Drew had the phony MySpace account deleted and warned a girl who knew about it that she should "keep her mouth shut."
After the incident became widely known, the Drew family was shunned by members of the community, targeted for abuse on the Internet and their small advertising business was vandalized.
Drew, who faces a maximum sentence of 20 years in federal prison if she is convicted on all of the charges, was expected to surrender to authorities in Missouri.
Reuters
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Wanna hear something depressing? One out of three Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
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 PhanTomCat
Wildcat that Never Was....
 
Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,710
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 16 hours, 26 minutes
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 Re: Suicide Blame Game: Personal Responsibility Reaches A New Low [Re: Diploid]
#8407050 - 05/15/08 09:07 PM (6 months, 4 days ago) |
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It was a pretty cruel thing to do....
There were no good intentions here on the part of the adult "stalker".... 
But, not sure how it would or should be handled.... 
>^;;^<
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"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 9,909
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Re: Suicide Blame Game: Personal Responsibility Reaches A New Low [Re: PhanTomCat]
#8407127 - 05/15/08 09:22 PM (6 months, 4 days ago) |
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I shouldn't be handled with with 20 years in prison.
The way I see it, the only one to blame here is the girl who killed herself over an internet persona she never even met, and maybe her mother.
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Wanna hear something depressing? One out of three Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
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WakeboardrB
It ain't easybeing white
Registered: 05/18/03
Posts: 3,546
Last seen: 11 hours, 45 minutes
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Re: Suicide Blame Game: Personal Responsibility Reaches A New Low [Re: Diploid]
#8407180 - 05/15/08 09:34 PM (6 months, 4 days ago) |
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Just because there is a maximum possibility of 20 years doesn't mean she's going to get anywhere near that.
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I like to imagine Jesus as... as a mischievous badger.
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 9,909
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Suicide Blame Game: Personal Responsibility Reaches A New Low [Re: WakeboardrB]
#8407212 - 05/15/08 09:41 PM (6 months, 4 days ago) |
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She doesn't deserve a millisecond in jail. WTF for being mean to someone on the internet? 
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Wanna hear something depressing? One out of three Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
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Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 9,238
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill
Last seen: 16 hours, 21 minutes
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Re: Suicide Blame Game: Personal Responsibility Reaches A New Low [Re: Diploid]
#8407283 - 05/15/08 09:53 PM (6 months, 4 days ago) |
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At the wery least, she should have been banned for a day.
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. -Inigo Montoya
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Ginseng1
Elegant Universe
Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 2,207
Last seen: 1 day, 13 hours
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Re: Suicide Blame Game: Personal Responsibility Reaches A New Low [Re: Diploid]
#8407338 - 05/15/08 10:01 PM (6 months, 4 days ago) |
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I don't think it's fair to call a 13 year old a drooling moron on the internet. Who knows what she might have been going through in her life. I also don't think this in anyway has anything to do with personal responsibility reaching a new low. This deranged woman posed as a teenage boy on the internet to purposely hurt her neighbour's 13 year old daugher.
What the woman did was fucked up. Suicide or not, doing something like this is fuckin weak and very strange.
However, I don't think the accused should be prosecuted. This experience will be on her conscience for a very long time. Long enough to teach her a good lesson in humility. This world is complicated in so many ways, there are just some things you don't fuck with.
She will punish herself. Considering the context of her actions, I think this is good enough. A good lesson for all of us.
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"The universe is honest, humanity is not." - A star
Edited by Ginseng1 (05/16/08 01:46 AM)
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PhanTomCat
Wildcat that Never Was....
Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,710
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 16 hours, 26 minutes
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 Re: Suicide Blame Game: Personal Responsibility Reaches A New Low [Re: Diploid]
#8407494 - 05/15/08 10:32 PM (6 months, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
She doesn't deserve a millisecond in jail. WTF for being mean to someone on the internet?
This is where the distinction needs to be made....
It wasn't just "someone on the internet", the "adult" of the situation calculatedly stalked and targeted her prey, with a purpose of mind games with cruel intentions....
And that "prey" was a minor - that perhaps had no business being on the internet (I don't have kids, so I don't know how I would handle this in today)....
That is also where I could see the parent(s) "fault" with enabling the kid with the computer, but then perhaps not supervising - in this scenario....
The whole story is ugly.... From the top to the bottom....
If any one of the three variables were swapped in the equation (internet, stalker adult, and/or supervision), the kid would prolly~ still be alive....
Not saying that the girl doesn't play a role, but damn....
>^;;^<
--------------------
"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<
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Cameron
perma-stone
Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 2,143
Loc: Canada
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Re: Suicide Blame Game: Personal Responsibility Reaches A New Low [Re: Diploid]
#8407885 - 05/16/08 12:20 AM (6 months, 4 days ago) |
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I think thirteen is pretty young to be playing the personal responsibility card with such a heavy hand. Thirteen is a very fragile time, especially for girls. I think what that woman did was childish, cruel, and twisted. She carried out her plot with the sole intent of hurting and seeking revenge (what a role model for her own daughter). It's a tough call, balancing personal freedoms and consequential outcomes, especially on the internet, but I think at the very least she should serve time in a serious psychiatric environment (which she will probably need to cope, anyways, unless she's devoid of any compassion).
I don't think prison or therapy will do much to resolve the kind of personality issues she is exhibiting, though. Everyone seeks revenge at some point in their lives, it's basic human nature. Some seek more elaborate and hurtful schemes than others, but that too is largely dependent on the victim and how he or she responds to provocation. She probably thought she was being a good mother, helping her daughter 'win' a petty little battle by hurting that girl; something you might see on television.
Prison time, in such a largely publicized event as this, would, if nothing else, send a message to bullies and cyber-bullies alike that words can cause equal and even greater pain than physical attacks can, and that seemingly harmless gestures can have very damaging impacts (especially on the young and impressionable). I don't necessarily agree with that approach, but my gut reaction is that *something* should be done...
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MushmanTheManic
Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,399
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Re: Suicide Blame Game: Personal Responsibility Reaches A New Low [Re: Diploid]
#8408171 - 05/16/08 02:39 AM (6 months, 4 days ago) |
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This clearly seems like illegal behavior that should be punished. A forty-nine year old woman harassing a child, regardless of what medium she uses, is immoral and unquestionably harmful. Your blame-the-victim mentality is horrendous, also.
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Concerned Citizens United Against Drugs and Terrorism
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 9,909
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Suicide Blame Game: Personal Responsibility Reaches A New Low [Re: Cameron]
#8408453 - 05/16/08 06:45 AM (6 months, 4 days ago) |
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I think thirteen is pretty young to be playing the personal responsibility card
Thirteen is plenty old, and apparently old enough to chase boys on the internet.
What if some stranger invited her into his car and she stoopidly hopped in, then was killed by the guy. Would she qualify for the drooling moron award then?
Of course she would.
--------------------
Wanna hear something depressing? One out of three Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 10,305
Loc: PNW
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Re: Suicide Blame Game: Personal Responsibility Reaches A New Low [Re: Diploid]
#8408553 - 05/16/08 08:15 AM (6 months, 4 days ago) |
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It sounds like she is not being charged with the girl's death, but rather as a "hacker." Obviously, you cannot make someone kill themself by being mean to them over the internet, but an adult with a grudge using her computer to target a young teen is definitely "ethically questionable," as my Ethics prof would say.
My guess is that this girl was very unstable to begin with, and may have engaged in some inappropriate behavior herself (the article mentions an altercation with the woman's son). Perhaps she was not capable of connecting with people IRL, which is why she took her fake boyfriend so seriously. 
Either way, they have not charged this woman with the girl's death, so it does not seem as though they are claiming she is legally responsible for the suicide.
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No man is free who is not master of himself.
~Epictetus.
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 9,909
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Suicide Blame Game: Personal Responsibility Reaches A New Low [Re: Veritas]
#8408567 - 05/16/08 08:22 AM (6 months, 4 days ago) |
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If anyone should be charged, it should be the girl's mother, IMO.
Why do people like this even bother having kids? They should stick to cats.
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Wanna hear something depressing? One out of three Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 10,305
Loc: PNW
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Re: Suicide Blame Game: Personal Responsibility Reaches A New Low [Re: Diploid]
#8408676 - 05/16/08 09:14 AM (6 months, 4 days ago) |
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Hey! I like cats! 
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No man is free who is not master of himself.
~Epictetus.
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Lion
I Am That I Am
Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 3,675
Loc: The Becoming Tree
Last seen: 49 minutes, 38 seconds
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Re: Suicide Blame Game: Personal Responsibility Reaches A New Low [Re: Diploid]
#8408755 - 05/16/08 09:40 AM (6 months, 4 days ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
I shouldn't be handled with with 20 years in prison.
I disagree. I think she is completely deserving of this sentence. This is an adult woman toying with a young, impressionable girl. Surely the girl's family is culpable too, but the bottom line is an adult was deliberately manipulating someone she knew to be a weak-minded person, and even going as far as to suggest that the girl's suicide would be beneficial. She should bear the full responsibility for the consequences of her words IMO.
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One day Ananda, who had been thinking deeply about things for a while, turned to the Buddha and exclaimed, "Lord, I've been thinking - spiritual friendship is at least half of the spiritual life!"
The Buddha replied: "Say not so, Ananda, say not so. Spiritual friendship is the whole of the spiritual life!"
Oh the good old days in merry old England and Europe. It was especially tasty to be a women then. Yes it certainly was better in the past.-Icelander
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 10,305
Loc: PNW
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Re: Suicide Blame Game: Personal Responsibility Reaches A New Low [Re: Lion]
#8408788 - 05/16/08 09:54 AM (6 months, 4 days ago) |
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Words cannot make someone kill themself. They must choose to internalize and personalize those words in order for them to have any effect.
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No man is free who is not master of himself.
~Epictetus.
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Lion
I Am That I Am
Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 3,675
Loc: The Becoming Tree
Last seen: 49 minutes, 38 seconds
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Re: Suicide Blame Game: Personal Responsibility Reaches A New Low [Re: Veritas]
#8408809 - 05/16/08 10:01 AM (6 months, 4 days ago) |
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Whatever, it was a 13-year-old kid! And the intent was malicious in the extreme.
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One day Ananda, who had been thinking deeply about things for a while, turned to the Buddha and exclaimed, "Lord, I've been thinking - spiritual friendship is at least half of the spiritual life!"
The Buddha replied: "Say not so, Ananda, say not so. Spiritual friendship is the whole of the spiritual life!"
Oh the good old days in merry old England and Europe. It was especially tasty to be a women then. Yes it certainly was better in the past.-Icelander
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 10,305
Loc: PNW
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Re: Suicide Blame Game: Personal Responsibility Reaches A New Low [Re: Lion]
#8408838 - 05/16/08 10:17 AM (6 months, 4 days ago) |
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I agree that her intent was malicious, and that the actual charges seem to have merit. What I disagree with is the idea that someone can cause the suicide of another through their words. (Or any other means, for that matter.)
Where is the responsibility of the teenager in this situation? We're not talking about a 5-year-old, but a young woman old enough to consider her choices.
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No man is free who is not master of himself.
~Epictetus.
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 9,909
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Suicide Blame Game: Personal Responsibility Reaches A New Low [Re: Lion]
#8408897 - 05/16/08 10:36 AM (6 months, 4 days ago) |
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I think she is completely deserving of this sentence
Sure, let's make it illegal to be mean to people on the internet. Half of the OTD regulars here would go to jail then.
While we're at it, let's make nasty words like "Fuck", and "Shit" illegal. Think of the children. Sure!
Or maybe we should recognize that this girl was 100% responsible for her own actions.
It's sucks that we ALREADY have to censor ourselves in this absurdly PC society we live in for fear of hurting someone's feelings. Now having to fear a prison sentence if I write the wrong thing sucks even more. And that's the next logical slide on a slippery slope. First you go to jail if you're mean to a kid, next you'll go to jail if you're mean to an adult. After that, it only makes sense that you go to jail if you offend someone.
Yeah, the lady in question was deliberate;u being an asshole. So what? That shouldn't be illegal.
--------------------
Wanna hear something depressing? One out of three Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 10,305
Loc: PNW
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Re: Suicide Blame Game: Personal Responsibility Reaches A New Low [Re: Diploid]
#8408907 - 05/16/08 10:43 AM (6 months, 4 days ago) |
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What about stalking someone? Should that be illegal? What this woman did was electronic stalking, and she definitely did this with malicious intent. If you do think that stalking someone in person should be illegal, how would we differentiate this from e-stalking?
Lets remove the suicide angle from this consideration. What about the woman's deliberate deception and seduction of this girl via the internet, followed by a staged 'break up,'? How is this different from someone stalking the girl IRL, leaving her notes & flowers, etc.?
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No man is free who is not master of himself.
~Epictetus.
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