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 Izord
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 Intelligent design by previous civilizations
#8397799 - 05/13/08 06:01 PM (6 months, 6 days ago) |
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I'm trying to flesh out an idea, and see if anyone shares it.
Technology is advancing really fast. Computers, micro-minature engineering, nano-tech, understanding of genetics. etc.
It seems that pretty soon we'll be able to design a life form incorporating our best understanding of biology and physics and Artificial Intelligence that could be an order of magnitude more advanced than we are.
Could this be how we arrived on the scene? A previous intelligent civilization advanced to the point that they created us?
Maybe they left some markers or text or instructions somewhere that we can find and learn from?
Izord
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Oweyervishice
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Re: Intelligent design by previous civilizations [Re: Izord]
#8397825 - 05/13/08 06:08 PM (6 months, 6 days ago) |
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Certain species of dinosaur had super-advanced technology, but it was all set to self destruct so there is nothing left for us to find.
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Izord
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Re: Intelligent design by previous civilizations [Re: Oweyervishice]
#8397855 - 05/13/08 06:16 PM (6 months, 6 days ago) |
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What if the creators exist on a different scale of dimension? For instance what if our entire known universe exists inside of one reactor or one petri dish or test tube or even hard drive in one of their labs?
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 deimya
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Re: Intelligent design by previous civilizations [Re: Izord]
#8397880 - 05/13/08 06:24 PM (6 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
It seems that pretty soon we'll be able to design a life form incorporating our best understanding of biology and physics and Artificial Intelligence that could be an order of magnitude more advanced than we are.
You're giving us way too much credits.
Quote:
What if the creators exist on a different scale of dimension? For instance what if our entire known universe exists inside of one reactor or one petri dish or test tube or even hard drive in one of their labs?
What if this was an unfalsifiable hypothesis ?
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Overclock22
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Re: Intelligent design by previous civilizations [Re: deimya]
#8397904 - 05/13/08 06:32 PM (6 months, 6 days ago) |
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If we are in a HDD or storage unit of some fashion then we will never know as the ends of this storage unit are moving away from us and we cant hope to reach them unless they stop. Runaway redshift even
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He did not laugh as his eyes stopped in awareness of the earth around him. His face was like a law of nature-a thing one could not question, alter or implore. It had high cheekbones over gaunt, hollow cheeks; gray eyes, cold and steady; a contemptuous mouth, shut tight, the mouth of an executioner or a saint.
If you wake up at a different time in a different place, can you wake up a different person?
Cf. A.C. Doyle "I'll rise above this, you can't keep me down, for I am Divine, and I know it all too well."
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Izord
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Re: Intelligent design by previous civilizations [Re: deimya]
#8397909 - 05/13/08 06:33 PM (6 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
deimya said:
Quote:
It seems that pretty soon we'll be able to design a life form incorporating our best understanding of biology and physics and Artificial Intelligence that could be an order of magnitude more advanced than we are.
You're giving us way too much credits.
I don't think so, Moore's law is holding pretty true, computational power doubling every 18 months or so. It doesn't seem too much of a stretch to think humans can create a life form that at least in specialized areas is more advanced than we are.
Quote:
What if the creators exist on a different scale of dimension? For instance what if our entire known universe exists inside of one reactor or one petri dish or test tube or even hard drive in one of their labs?
What if this was an unfalsifiable hypothesis ?
It probably is unfalsifiable, but what I was trying to get at should probably have been placed in a different topic than the first conjecture. Sorry.
At the same time, I think we are very biased toward thinking only in orders of our size. There's a lot of activity going on out there, and who is to say that intelligence doesn't exist on the order of stars or galaxies? Although unfalsifiable, it would be a provable hypothesis if meaningful communication could be established with another type of intelligence existing on a different scale.
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deimya
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Re: Intelligent design by previous civilizations [Re: Izord]
#8397955 - 05/13/08 06:49 PM (6 months, 6 days ago) |
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Moore's law is but a trend for computer chips. The field of AI never really delivered and our understanding of processes behind life, consciousness and such is still limited, let alone our understanding about how one would actually create it. Moore's law doesn't speak about that. There's an immense conceptual gap to cross and cramming a trillion transistors or three per square centimeter won't do it. Furthermore the shear amount of scientific knowledge produced every day is vastly greater than our current capacity to integrate it as a whole in a meaningful, coherent way. Google and Wikipedia aren't the answer and again AI didn't deliver.
I somewhat agree with your second point. Damn speed of light, should have been greater 
Edited by deimya (05/13/08 06:56 PM)
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Izord
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Re: Intelligent design by previous civilizations [Re: deimya]
#8398041 - 05/13/08 07:14 PM (6 months, 6 days ago) |
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Well, of course it's a trend. So's gravity. 
Do you think biological organization is infinitely complex? If so we can never understand it and never replicate or surpass what currently exists. If on the other hand the organization is finite and defined by things like genes and enzymes, then we are getting pretty close. Isn't the human genome mapping project complete or close to being complete?
As far as the speed of light? Well from the perspective of light itself, it's infinite. That is light gets where it is going instantly due to the Lorenz contraction of length.
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Rahz
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Re: Intelligent design by previous civilizations [Re: deimya]
#8398163 - 05/13/08 07:51 PM (6 months, 6 days ago) |
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I believe we could have made it here either way, and that evolution seems much more likely, considering the fossil record, and the lack of evidence stating otherwise.
Either way, you or they, gotta ask, "who made who?", unless they knew something we didn't.
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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Gomp
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 Re: Intelligent design by previous civilizations [Re: Izord]
#8398974 - 05/13/08 10:29 PM (6 months, 6 days ago) |
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The legend(s) of Atlantis..
That idea, is exaclty what is proposed, by most of them..
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backfromthedead
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Re: Intelligent design by previous civilizations [Re: Gomp]
#8399309 - 05/13/08 11:51 PM (6 months, 6 days ago) |
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'Maybe they left some markers or text or instructions somewhere that we can find and learn from?'
'Enki, (En=lord, Ki=Earth), in addition to being the God of fresh water, was also God of wisdom and magic, regarded by some as an alchemist. When the Igigi went on strike and refused to continue to work maintaining the universe, on the Shappatu (Hebrew. shabbat, Eng. sabbath) Enki created humankind to assume responsibility for the tasks the Gods no longer performed. The Anunnaki were the High Council of the Gods, and Anu's companions. They were distributed through the Earth and the Underworld.'
From Babylonian mythology, annunaki wiki search.
Summerian clay tablets FT(fuckin)W
"Those who from heaven came..."
Muthafuckin spores I tell ya!!
That world teacher. Careful, he's got an earful fer ya.
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NiamhNyx
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Re: Intelligent design by previous civilizations [Re: Izord]
#8399464 - 05/14/08 12:52 AM (6 months, 6 days ago) |
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If there is anything in this existence that I am certain of, it is that we are not robots built by aliens from another galaxy.
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backfromthedead
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Re: Intelligent design by previous civilizations [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8399472 - 05/14/08 12:59 AM (6 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
NiamhNyx said:
If there is anything in this existence that I am certain of, it is that we are not robots built by aliens from another galaxy.
You wait till planet X comes rollin through.
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WhiskeyClone
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Re: Intelligent design by previous civilizations [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8400014 - 05/14/08 08:22 AM (6 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
NiamhNyx said:
If there is anything in this existence that I am certain of, it is that we are not robots built by aliens from another galaxy.
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-oOo-
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day. -- `Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood.' -- Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.
~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
-oOo-
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Ginseng1
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Re: Intelligent design by previous civilizations [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8400531 - 05/14/08 12:08 PM (6 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
NiamhNyx said:
If there is anything in this existence that I am certain of, it is that we are not robots built by aliens from another galaxy.
I've never heard of this one before.
But even if you think about it, humans very much can be considered robots, considering how we can manipulate our biological functions, and how naturally occuring illneses can change us. Men on estrogen or alzheimers?
What about Dolly the clone sheep. How would her parents go about telling her where she came from? What about that mouse with the nose human nose? That was weird...
Our bodies are just very sophisticaed and complex machines in the end.
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"The universe is honest, humanity is not." - A star
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Izord
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Re: Intelligent design by previous civilizations [Re: Ginseng1]
#8400591 - 05/14/08 12:23 PM (6 months, 6 days ago) |
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I'm not thinking in terms of us as robots but as something that a biological civilization designed with the help of technology and computers (then), incorporating that tech into the new biological organism (us), that is more advanced and surpassed the previous civilization.
Much as I would incorporate things like perfect computer memory and processing speed and knowledge of drugs etc. into any organism I were to design. Of course I would make it autonomous, self-replicating, self-aware, and self contained. But it would be a whole step ahead of where I'm at today. And then it would use it's knowledge of science, chemistry and physics and biology to design the next iteration.
How many times has this happened? Where are the records kept?
Izord
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Oweyervishice
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Re: Intelligent design by previous civilizations [Re: Izord]
#8400604 - 05/14/08 12:25 PM (6 months, 6 days ago) |
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Similar to
"We are in the Matrix, and the Matrix is in another simulation, which is in another simulation..." 
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Izord
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Re: Intelligent design by previous civilizations [Re: Oweyervishice]
#8401839 - 05/14/08 05:30 PM (6 months, 5 days ago) |
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No, just trying to show how "Intelligent Design" theory could be something other than rubbish.
There are some things that are pretty difficult to explain by a process of random evolution like the little pulley at the top of the eye socket that one of the eye muscle tendon runs through.
I find random evolution more acceptable than I.D. by a magical boogeyman who "created" us by snap of his fingers and wave of his magick wand.
At the same time, it appears pretty obvious that we are headed rapidly toward an understanding of biology and technology that COULD allow us to fabricate a type of life that has the potential to leave us behind and never look back.
What if some scientist makes a new kind of DNA analog in a lab that is so superior to what currently exists, using nano-tech and CAD and molecular biology, that it self arranges into a rudimentary life form that say grows exponentially faster than everything else, and has integrated adaptive mechanisms that allows it to evolve.... ?
You see where this is headed?
Forget the matrix here please, doesn't belong in this thread anyway. Sorry I brought up something like that.
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NiamhNyx
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Re: Intelligent design by previous civilizations [Re: Izord]
#8402310 - 05/14/08 07:52 PM (6 months, 5 days ago) |
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Who designed our designers than? If we're too complex to be random, then logically our creators would be even more complex than us and would have logically had to be created by a yet more complex species as well. Where does it begin? Again, either chaos or a magical omnipotent being. I'm sticking with the theory of evolution as it's the only one that has any supportive evidence.
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 Lion
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Re: Intelligent design by previous civilizations [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8402319 - 05/14/08 07:54 PM (6 months, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
NiamhNyx said:
Who designed our designers than? If we're too complex to be random, then logically our creators would be even more complex than us and would have logically had to be created by a yet more complex species as well. Where does it begin? Again, either chaos or a magical omnipotent being. I'm sticking with the theory of evolution as it's the only one that has any supportive evidence.
Damn good argument! 
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One day Ananda, who had been thinking deeply about things for a while, turned to the Buddha and exclaimed, "Lord, I've been thinking - spiritual friendship is at least half of the spiritual life!"
The Buddha replied: "Say not so, Ananda, say not so. Spiritual friendship is the whole of the spiritual life!"
Oh the good old days in merry old England and Europe. It was especially tasty to be a women then. Yes it certainly was better in the past.-Icelander
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