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 Chronic777
 
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 3,485
Loc: Unmoving Core
Last seen: 4 hours, 23 minutes
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 The main question of P & S...
#8392575 - 05/12/08 12:40 PM (6 months, 8 days ago) |
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What is the mystery of life? The ultimate truth? The absolute?
Id say this is the main question of both philosophy & spirituality.
The known changes daily, passes by, the unknown is the mystery, eternal, the absolute, the ultimate truth.
So why do so called philosophers have such fear of the unknown, when they obviously desire truth themselves?
To me a true philosopher is one who is willing to go beyond the known to discover the commonly unknown, to find the mystery of life & not stop until they do so.
Socrates, Pythagoras...
Otherwise you are just closed minded, can this be said to be smart philosophising?
To be closed minded?
One that doesn't depend on others beliefs (science & spirituality passed down) but finds the truth by going within themselves is a philosopher, a neutral seeker of absolute truth is a philosophiser.
There are some like Icelander who are neither for or against, yet willing to be open, and they will find truth, some just seem to be SO for or against and have already shut off they're mind to all possibilities. Can you call this philosophising?
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What is here?
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Rahz
Spore Viewer
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 2,033
Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours
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Re: The main question of P & S... [Re: Chronic777]
#8392636 - 05/12/08 12:58 PM (6 months, 8 days ago) |
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Well, I think that by expressing absolutes, a person creates a space to question themselves. It may reinforce the absolute, especially if expressed in an environment with no dissent, but deep down, I believe people know when they're full of crap, even if it's just a bad feeling that goes unexamined in the moment.
Being expressive towards a close minded ideal, is also a form of love. Even holding it in, is an expression of love. Being closed minded, can lead to wisdom, like a tree in winter holding the energy in until the time is right.
I like to think everyone is philosophical. And as long as they open their mouth, something philosophical is going to come out. If it weren't for rigid views, I would have a lot less material to be philosophical about. And I think most everyone, including myself, has some level of rigidity to consider.
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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Chronic777
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 3,485
Loc: Unmoving Core
Last seen: 4 hours, 23 minutes
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Re: The main question of P & S... [Re: Rahz]
#8392666 - 05/12/08 01:05 PM (6 months, 8 days ago) |
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But wouldn't being philosophical imply being open minded to any truth and scrutinizing it for yourself?
Instead of being put off by dreamy hippies, or swotty mathematicians?
Both being silly stereotypes.
I really don't see how being closed minded is like a tree storing energy!
The only way truth/reality of existence can be known is through an open mind, or no-mind. Depends on which your ego likes the sound of more. 
In no way can a closed attached judgemental mind be open to anything really, apart from its own personal resritrictive concepts.
Why even seek truth if you arent willing to find it!?
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Rahz
Spore Viewer
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 2,033
Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours
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Re: The main question of P & S... [Re: Chronic777]
#8392856 - 05/12/08 01:54 PM (6 months, 8 days ago) |
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>>>>In no way can a closed attached judgmental mind be open to anything really, apart from its own personal restrictive concepts.
If you witness someone change, where they were closed minded before, their effort (being close minded is an effort IMO) must have been useful no?
IOW, what appears to be stagnation in others, is only egoic perception IMO. If you truly believe all is love, then being closed minded must have purpose. If the tree analogy is bad, how about a seed? The seed is closed, and to open when dry, if it were possible, would spell death. Better to stay closed, and wait for rain.
Maybe search yourself, and consider things you were close minded about in the past. Can you see how that belief, and the burden it created, WAS the catalyst for change in the direction you were not previously able to consider?
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 23,395
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The main question of P & S... [Re: Chronic777]
#8392857 - 05/12/08 01:54 PM (6 months, 8 days ago) |
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What is the mystery of life? The ultimate truth? The absolute?
There is no way to answer this question. We humans have a finite capacity for thought. The Universe appears infinite. So we will never know as far as I can tell.
The real goal of philosophy for me is to uncover my personal subjective truth that will allow me to enjoy this temporary experience to the best of my ability. And that's all.
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
embrace death in all the ways it comes no matter how soft or hard. cruel ,tragic,weak,light, gentle, ect how ever. thats life
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TheCow
Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 4,637
Last seen: 4 months, 14 days
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Re: The main question of P & S... [Re: Chronic777]
#8392868 - 05/12/08 01:56 PM (6 months, 8 days ago) |
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Never really understood the usefulness of either
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Chronic777
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 3,485
Loc: Unmoving Core
Last seen: 4 hours, 23 minutes
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Re: The main question of P & S... [Re: Chronic777]
#8392983 - 05/12/08 02:22 PM (6 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said:
>>>>In no way can a closed attached judgmental mind be open to anything really, apart from its own personal restrictive concepts.
If you witness someone change, where they were closed minded before, their effort (being close minded is an effort IMO) must have been useful no?
IOW, what appears to be stagnation in others, is only egoic perception IMO. If you truly believe all is love, then being closed minded must have purpose. If the tree analogy is bad, how about a seed? The seed is closed, and to open when dry, if it were possible, would spell death. Better to stay closed, and wait for rain.
Maybe search yourself, and consider things you were close minded about in the past. Can you see how that belief, and the burden it created, WAS the catalyst for change in the direction you were not previously able to consider?
In the sense there can be no beautiful awakening & enlightenment without innocent ignorance first, a closed mind is beautiful. Unless it remains closed and stagnates. All i wish is for all of us to flower beautifully out of these closed ancient fearful minds. aaaah 
Quote:
Icelander said:
What is the mystery of life? The ultimate truth? The absolute?
There is no way to answer this question. We humans have a finite capacity for thought. The Universe appears infinite. So we will never know as far as I can tell.
The real goal of philosophy for me is to uncover my personal subjective truth that will allow me to enjoy this temporary experience to the best of my ability. And that's all.
Thats good, to enjoy life is lifes purpose imo. Just remember that you bring the joy it doesnt come form anywhere else. En-joy.
No thought, no-mind is where the infinite absolute resides. This absolute actually synonymous with joy! We are bound to thoughts which are limiting, undoubtedly, when thought stops then infinity is there. Thats why so many awakened beings say reality is "no-mind" no human can know the truth and write a thesis about it, but they can become the truth.
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What is here?
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Rahz
Spore Viewer
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 2,033
Last seen: 3 days, 22 hours
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Re: The main question of P & S... [Re: Chronic777]
#8393119 - 05/12/08 02:59 PM (6 months, 8 days ago) |
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>>>>In the sense there can be no beautiful awakening & enlightenment without innocent ignorance first, a closed mind is beautiful. Unless it remains closed and stagnates. All i wish is for all of us to flower beautifully out of these closed ancient fearful minds. aaaah
I agree. I can relate to your argument, and my wish is the same. If I can understand the source of a persons mental block, perhaps I can be helpful and be a part of the catalyst for their change. If I cannot understand, or the person in question doesn't want help, that's groovy too.
Anything else, would seem to be a problem on my part. The desire to condemn what is perceived to be stagnation, is all over the history books.
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 23,395
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The main question of P & S... [Re: Chronic777]
#8393124 - 05/12/08 03:00 PM (6 months, 8 days ago) |
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No thought, no-mind is where the infinite absolute resides.
Not true IMO and you have no evidence for this. Also there are no awakened beings and you have no evidence of this either.
Sorry Charlie.
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
embrace death in all the ways it comes no matter how soft or hard. cruel ,tragic,weak,light, gentle, ect how ever. thats life
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Chronic777
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 3,485
Loc: Unmoving Core
Last seen: 4 hours, 23 minutes
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Re: The main question of P & S... [Re: Icelander]
#8393133 - 05/12/08 03:04 PM (6 months, 8 days ago) |
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There never will be evidence, only you can become the living evidence.
Only each individual can proove it to themselves.
The only evidence could be like when there was a test on buddhist monks who'd been meditating for ten years, and they showed certain parts of they're brian were functioning more so than a "normal" westerners brain.
But of course i don't have the link!!! 
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 10,305
Loc: PNW
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Re: The main question of P & S... [Re: Chronic777]
#8393148 - 05/12/08 03:12 PM (6 months, 7 days ago) |
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http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/3/4/513
You're welcome. However, this does not prove anything regarding no-mind or enlightenment. Unless you mean "enlightenment" in the sense mentioned in the article:
"the stabilization of higher states of functioning of the human psychophysiology."
The fact that engaging in focused mental activity and relaxation on a daily basis has a neurological effect is no more surprising than the fact that lifting weights builds muscle mass. 
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No man is free who is not master of himself.
~Epictetus.
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Chronic777
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 3,485
Loc: Unmoving Core
Last seen: 4 hours, 23 minutes
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Re: The main question of P & S... [Re: Veritas]
#8393176 - 05/12/08 03:22 PM (6 months, 7 days ago) |
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True & thankyou, im too lazy to search, but this is the only "evidence" that comes close.
"higher states of functioning of the human psychophysiology" sounds like a good description of higher consciousness to me.
The only other evidence, the only true, real evidence is to awaken yourself, no-one else can proove it for anyone else, if they could id imagine alot more people would be awakened. And its really not difficult, its already so, all thats needed is self enquiry to discover the truth inside you.
Its like trying to proove divinity, it cant be prooved only experienced, revealed, discovered.
I understand the mind that says i want proof first, all im saying is if your genuinely interested, find for yourself instead of waiting for others to proove it first.
If your not genuinely interested then just live life & be happy, then your half way there anyway!
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What is here?
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deimya
tofu with monocle
Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 529
Loc: ausländer.ch
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Re: The main question of P & S... [Re: Chronic777]
#8393514 - 05/12/08 04:59 PM (6 months, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Its like trying to proove divinity, it cant be prooved only experienced, revealed, discovered.
Its like trying to proove gravity, it cant be prooved only experienced, revealed, discovered.
...every experience is a human experience. If, because of one's philosophical or spiritual stance, someone cannot, or refuse to appreciate the "a-ha !" moment brought about by a clever proof, then this someone is missing just as much as someone else who cannot, or refuse to appreciate the no-thing, no-mind state of a good meditation. Who's being close minded ?
Neither ways are "ultimate" solution to your initial "ultimate" questions.
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Oweyervishice
Overshoes
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 1,245
Last seen: 19 hours, 49 minutes
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Re: The main question of P & S... [Re: Chronic777]
#8394128 - 05/12/08 07:55 PM (6 months, 7 days ago) |
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Being ego-less is not the same as being infinite. INFINITE! It boggles the mind and it would boggle the no-mind.
There is no way to truly grasp infinity as a human.
Edited by Oweyervishice (05/12/08 10:56 PM)
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deranger
disciple of plant
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 3,227
Loc: time
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Re: The main question of P & S... [Re: Icelander]
#8394850 - 05/12/08 10:50 PM (6 months, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:Also there are no awakened beings and you have no evidence of this either.
if we can become more awake, more frequently in dreams, who is to say this isn't possible in the waking state?
if there is a depth of wakefulness one can experience in the dream world, it just feels right to say this is so for the waking state as well.
but in all honesty i don't think this Mooji character is as awakened as he plays out to be. he too most likely has far more to unfold.
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new progressive dubstep mix 
"you're in a boat, you choose the color of the boat
the boat's on the ocean
the ocean represents your spirit, your emotions, and your life
and the life that you're living is the boat, you're in the boat
you have an anchor, that you don't know you have, it's an invisible anchor
when you see it, that's when you'll be seen"
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MokshaIs
everywhereeverpresent
Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 393
Last seen: 1 day, 12 hours
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Re: The main question of P & S... [Re: deranger]
#8395287 - 05/13/08 01:46 AM (6 months, 7 days ago) |
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 no need to grasp infinite, i be it yo fo sho...
so....
hmmmmm...
what to do...
alas, being is dandy, yet, what of intellectual dandiness? alas, tis a goose of moose. so, the ultimate truth Is... perhaps the most accurate linguistic portrayal of the Timeless?... Truth Is
what about, God is all things, yet no thing is God. but wait, God? oy, what rambles! can we not see the truth of ourselves? what a cosmic giggle of a game we play!
one can only hope that the pope will croak and apocalyptic scenario-itis plays itself out as the harpsichordian chaotic Love...
Costa Rica
peace and goose
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in all of Infinite
there is but One
and it is nOne
ever and always
in every and all ways
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 23,395
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The main question of P & S... [Re: Chronic777]
#8396328 - 05/13/08 11:28 AM (6 months, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
True & thankyou, im too lazy to search, but this is the only "evidence" that comes close.
"higher states of functioning of the human psychophysiology" sounds like a good description of higher consciousness to me.
The only other evidence, the only true, real evidence is to awaken yourself, no-one else can proove it for anyone else, if they could id imagine alot more people would be awakened. And its really not difficult, its already so, all thats needed is self enquiry to discover the truth inside you.
Its like trying to proove divinity, it cant be prooved only experienced, revealed, discovered.
I understand the mind that says i want proof first, all im saying is if your genuinely interested, find for yourself instead of waiting for others to proove it first.
If your not genuinely interested then just live life & be happy, then your half way there anyway!
So are you "awakened"?
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
embrace death in all the ways it comes no matter how soft or hard. cruel ,tragic,weak,light, gentle, ect how ever. thats life
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deranger
disciple of plant
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 3,227
Loc: time
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Re: The main question of P & S... [Re: MokshaIs]
#8396389 - 05/13/08 11:47 AM (6 months, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
MokshaIs said:Costa Rica
and a jungle drum circle sprinkled with dmt 
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new progressive dubstep mix
"you're in a boat, you choose the color of the boat
the boat's on the ocean
the ocean represents your spirit, your emotions, and your life
and the life that you're living is the boat, you're in the boat
you have an anchor, that you don't know you have, it's an invisible anchor
when you see it, that's when you'll be seen"
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MokshaIs
everywhereeverpresent
Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 393
Last seen: 1 day, 12 hours
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Re: The main question of P & S... [Re: deranger]
#8396814 - 05/13/08 01:44 PM (6 months, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
SyntheticMInd said:
Quote:
MokshaIs said:Costa Rica
and a jungle drum circle sprinkled with dmt
soon fellow traveller, very soon
........... ..........
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in all of Infinite
there is but One
and it is nOne
ever and always
in every and all ways
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Atheist
FøøL
Registered: 01/24/06
Posts: 9,203
Loc: USA
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Re: The main question of P & S... [Re: Chronic777]
#8396899 - 05/13/08 02:01 PM (6 months, 7 days ago) |
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the purpose of life is to LIVE
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