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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 23,395
Loc: underbelly
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 Superorganisms and the purpose of belief - or - How wrong can be right
#8377535 - 05/08/08 01:14 PM (6 months, 12 days ago) |
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Survival and evolution. That's what's going on here IMO. Not your survival or mine but the human race and beyond that life in general. In one way or another all organisms are part of an organization. Organizing to survive.
I have often wondered why people believe in, what is to me superstitious nonsense even in the face of evidence to the contrary. I have heard that the founder of the Seventh Day Adventists predicted and changed his prediction for the end of the world three times and it never happened and yet his followers never abandoned him and his sect grew. Why? Have you ever wondered why all the failures of prediction of this and that never deter the masses for further belief. Orgone Conclusion posts on this all the time.
Of coures he thinks it's a bad and stupid thing with no value for anything. He might just be wrong. How could a wrong belief be right? Could any belief have the potential to insure survival for a time.
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
embrace death in all the ways it comes no matter how soft or hard. cruel ,tragic,weak,light, gentle, ect how ever. thats life
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OrgoneConclusion
Oh, bee hive!
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 7,975
Loc: In the woods
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Re: Superorganisms and the purpose of belief - or - How wrong can be right [Re: Icelander]
#8377582 - 05/08/08 01:23 PM (6 months, 12 days ago) |
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The ONLY purpose it serves is group cohesion once the belief has been widely accepted.
Say you were part of a tribe of 30 living in a remote jungle. It would be near impossible to survive on your own for very long. If you openly challenged the chief or shaman on some religious belief, you might well become an outcast effectively commiting suicide.
In modern day society, the need for acceptance is stronger (in some) than the need for rationality as pertains to certain issues.
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What is the sound of one jaw snapping?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 23,395
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Superorganisms and the purpose of belief - or - How wrong can be right [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#8377593 - 05/08/08 01:25 PM (6 months, 12 days ago) |
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Right. Maybe rationality isn't as important for survival as belief. 
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
embrace death in all the ways it comes no matter how soft or hard. cruel ,tragic,weak,light, gentle, ect how ever. thats life
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OrgoneConclusion
Oh, bee hive!
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 7,975
Loc: In the woods
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Re: Superorganisms and the purpose of belief - or - How wrong can be right [Re: Icelander]
#8377651 - 05/08/08 01:36 PM (6 months, 12 days ago) |
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Hell Frosty, look at the US Congress and the Iraq war. It was pounded daily on the media that if you were not for war, you were a borderline traitor. The Congress looked left and looked right and by-and-large decided they better go along.
Now that The War is seen largely as a failure, most of these same people now adopt the prevailing anti-war position.
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What is the sound of one jaw snapping?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 23,395
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Superorganisms and the purpose of belief - or - How wrong can be right [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#8377676 - 05/08/08 01:40 PM (6 months, 12 days ago) |
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Sort of like Robots working for some end they have no knowledge of huh?
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
embrace death in all the ways it comes no matter how soft or hard. cruel ,tragic,weak,light, gentle, ect how ever. thats life
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 fireworks_god
Sexy ButtMcDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 20,445
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 8 minutes, 1 second
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Re: Superorganisms and the purpose of belief - or - How wrong can be right [Re: Icelander]
#8377687 - 05/08/08 01:43 PM (6 months, 12 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Survival and evolution. That's what's going on here IMO. Not your survival or mine but the human race and beyond that life in general. In one way or another all organisms are part of an organization. Organizing to survive.
Humans typically regard themselves as a distinct individual, yet our existence is as an organization of distinct organisms that form associations through interaction amongst themselves. At one point, the entirety of the form we know as humans, before it had evolved to be as much, was single-celled organisms associating together for the first time for the mutual survival of all involved. Its interesting how its been managed that the structure of the organization itself may be propagated through genetics. Something interesting is definitely unfolding here. 
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Meet me in outer space
We could spend the night;
watch the earth come up 
I've grown tired of that place;
won't you come with me?
We could start again.
 
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 23,395
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Superorganisms and the purpose of belief - or - How wrong can be right [Re: fireworks_god]
#8377719 - 05/08/08 01:50 PM (6 months, 12 days ago) |
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Yes. If you want more on this facinating subject check out the "Lucifer Principle". I can't remember the author at the moment and I'm not home. It's a wild ride. My post just vaguely touched on his ideas.
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
embrace death in all the ways it comes no matter how soft or hard. cruel ,tragic,weak,light, gentle, ect how ever. thats life
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 23,395
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Superorganisms and the purpose of belief - or - How wrong can be right [Re: Icelander]
#8379400 - 05/08/08 08:48 PM (6 months, 11 days ago) |
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Full title is Lucifer Principle an expedition into the forces of history by Bloom.
This book will fuck you up royally.
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
embrace death in all the ways it comes no matter how soft or hard. cruel ,tragic,weak,light, gentle, ect how ever. thats life
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 backfromthedead
Activated
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,590
Last seen: 3 months, 24 days
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Re: Superorganisms and the purpose of belief - or - How wrong can be right [Re: Icelander]
#8379630 - 05/08/08 09:32 PM (6 months, 11 days ago) |
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'How could a wrong belief be right?'
When it produces THE LIGHT.
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shaggy101
in love with a8000 mile widewoman
Registered: 08/16/00
Posts: 1,766
Loc: ..still waiting for godot
Last seen: 4 months, 4 days
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 Re: Superorganisms and the purpose of belief - or - How wrong can be right [Re: Icelander]
#8380494 - 05/09/08 01:32 AM (6 months, 11 days ago) |
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" Right. Maybe rationality isn't as important for survival as belief. "
WOW.. thats pretty fucking scary..
is true Knowledge
the same as belief?.. Fuck no!..
riiight?
ugh,
makes me think Orwell
might have been more prophetic than one would like to believe..
I mean God-Damn,
is the truth so scary that one must bury there head in the sand?
fuck lemme post these..
Choices always were a problem for you.
What you need is someone strong to guide you.
Deaf and blind and dumb and born to follow,
what you need is someone strong to use you...
like me,
like me.
If you want to get your soul to heaven,
trust in me.
Don't judge or question.
You are broken now,
but faith can heal you.
Just do everything I tell you to do.
Deaf and blind and dumb and born to follow.
Let me lay my holy hand upon you.
My God's will
becomes me.
When he speaks out,
he speaks through me.
He has needs
like I do.
We both want
to rape you.
Jesus Christ, why don't you come save my life.
Open my eyes and blind me with your light
and your lies.
one must make choices...
mm?
but I think wesa
parta
this deal.. integrated deeply and such..
and shitty stuff happens in our lifes..
same as shitty stuff happens in the great paradigm of our history.. this suicidal self
will do just that..
but what will be left..
one must make choices.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 23,395
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Superorganisms and the purpose of belief - or - How wrong can be right [Re: shaggy101]
#8385219 - 05/10/08 01:04 PM (6 months, 10 days ago) |
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WOW.. thats pretty fucking scary..
I know how you feel.
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
embrace death in all the ways it comes no matter how soft or hard. cruel ,tragic,weak,light, gentle, ect how ever. thats life
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deimya
tofu with monocle
Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 529
Loc: ausländer.ch
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Re: Superorganisms and the purpose of belief - or - How wrong can be right [Re: Icelander]
#8385520 - 05/10/08 02:22 PM (6 months, 10 days ago) |
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DNA works and is indiscriminate. However far-reaching the cascade it creates through organisms, behaviors, communities and superorganisms, every beneficial repeatable changes have the possibility to be distilled and encoded back in some way or another. It seems like rationality and beliefs might just be equal to growing wings or digesting cellulose indeed !
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Oweyervishice
Overshoes
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 1,245
Last seen: 19 hours, 52 minutes
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Re: Superorganisms and the purpose of belief - or - How wrong can be right [Re: Icelander]
#8386153 - 05/10/08 05:07 PM (6 months, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Yes. If you want more on this facinating subject check out the "Lucifer Principle". I can't remember the author at the moment and I'm not home. It's a wild ride. My post just vaguely touched on his ideas.
Written by Howard Bloom.
Looks like an interesting read. If humans are collectively one organism, maybe the internet is a growing brain.
I don't think groups of animals are directly comparable to groups of cells though...what about DNA?
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truekimbo2
total being glossolalia
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 4,854
Loc: ny
Last seen: 8 hours, 14 minutes
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Re: Superorganisms and the purpose of belief - or - How wrong can be right [Re: Oweyervishice]
#8386528 - 05/10/08 06:46 PM (6 months, 9 days ago) |
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for some reason i thought this post was going to be about how there must be forms of life that exsist on a scale larger than human beings (galaxies as alive and stuff like that).
and how human right and wrong would be completely valueless to them, assuming they were intelligent. which raises some questions on how we should worship and commune with our gods.
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I'm trapped with a mad man. look at him, staring into me, filling my mind with paranoid thoughts
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 23,395
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Superorganisms and the purpose of belief - or - How wrong can be right [Re: Oweyervishice]
#8387078 - 05/10/08 09:14 PM (6 months, 9 days ago) |
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Read the book. He seems to have the info. I usually just skim books looking for things to confirm my beliefs.
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
embrace death in all the ways it comes no matter how soft or hard. cruel ,tragic,weak,light, gentle, ect how ever. thats life
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Oweyervishice
Overshoes
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 1,245
Last seen: 19 hours, 52 minutes
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Re: Superorganisms and the purpose of belief - or - How wrong can be right [Re: Icelander]
#8387156 - 05/10/08 09:44 PM (6 months, 9 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Read the book. He seems to have the info. I usually just skim books looking for things to confirm my beliefs.
Such is life. 
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