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 Liquid_Dimension
Lighthousekeeper
Registered: 02/15/04
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 What is Consciousness?
#8052096 - 02/21/08 02:18 PM (8 months, 26 days ago) |
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Is it our inner thoughts? feelings,personalities...the hidden stuff of our private selfs? or simply self awareness? 
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soulcircus
Registered: 05/09/06
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Post deleted by soulcircusReason for deletion: .
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Herbus
Pioneer of the'...'
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Quote:
Liquid_Dimension said:
Is it our inner thoughts? feelings,personalities...the hidden stuff of our private selfs? or simply self awareness?
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...
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Bernackums
Stranger
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Re: What is Consciousness? [Re: soulcircus]
#8052204 - 02/21/08 02:51 PM (8 months, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
soulcircus said:
aware of awareness
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Turn off your mind, relax and float down stream...
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backfromthedead
Activated
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Re: What is Consciousness? [Re: Bernackums]
#8052276 - 02/21/08 03:07 PM (8 months, 26 days ago) |
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As there is no clear definition of consciousness and no empirical measure exists to test for its presence, it has been argued that due to the nature of the problem of consciousness, empirical tests are intrinsically impossible.
-wiki
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Tchan909
Carpe DM
Registered: 07/11/06
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This question drives me crazy.  If anybody has some insights I'd love to hear 'em.
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not necessarily stoned, but... beautiful.
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 Entropymancer
Saint of Circumstance
Registered: 07/16/05
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Loc: PNW
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Re: What is Consciousness? [Re: Tchan909]
#8052734 - 02/21/08 04:58 PM (8 months, 26 days ago) |
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I think of consciousness as something that arises when a complex network (like a brain) gains enough feedback loops to recognize itself as a whole.
I guess that's just my way of phrasing "awareness of self" or "awareness of awareness".
But then there's ramifications. A computer circuit is a complex network not too different from the brain... so is consciousness something that could arise spontaneously in computers when the circuits get complex enough?
Or is it more than that? I can see where just the quantity or complexity of the connections may not be enough... maybe it takes a certain diversity of feedback loops. Our brain has thousands of little biochemicals cycles, processes, and loops which all inter-regulate one another. Maybe it's not just the complexity of the circuit but the diversity and inter-regulation of feedback loops that accounts for the emergence of consciousness.
Good question.
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Bufotenin
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Tchan909
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Even if it's that simple, what is consciousness, its fundamental nature? Is it energy, matter, or something else?
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not necessarily stoned, but... beautiful.
The Albert Hofmann Collection
Doctors and other wizards are forbidden under Martian Law!
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Entropymancer
Saint of Circumstance
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Re: What is Consciousness? [Re: Tchan909]
#8052776 - 02/21/08 05:07 PM (8 months, 26 days ago) |
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Energy of course. Because matter is just a form of energy ( ). Though there may be a more fundamental thing than energy, I'm skeptical.
I know that doesn't really answer what you're getting at though. And I think that really the answer to your question is both. It's molecules in our brain doing various things to generate action potentials (energy) which is transmitted along to the next set of molecules which generate some action potential that gets transmitted to the next set of molecules....
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Bufotenin
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Tchan909
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That much is obvious. I'm planning to pursue a career in neuropsychology.
But what is the substance of your thought? How do those little synapses become the things that you experience? Your perspective? Clearly the brain functions somewhat like a computer, and the activities of its structures can be discerned, but that simply cannot satisfy the need to know what awareness is.
Maybe you're satisfied, but the current model only tells us what it looks like and that's not enough for me.
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not necessarily stoned, but... beautiful.
The Albert Hofmann Collection
Doctors and other wizards are forbidden under Martian Law!
Edited by Tchan909 (02/21/08 05:17 PM)
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Entropymancer
Saint of Circumstance
Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 5,373
Loc: PNW
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Re: What is Consciousness? [Re: Tchan909]
#8052814 - 02/21/08 05:18 PM (8 months, 26 days ago) |
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.... ya got me on that one.
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Bufotenin
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AlteredAgain
♫0‰♫
Registered: 04/27/06
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Loc: Ω-pOint
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Quote:
Liquid_Dimension said:
Is it our inner thoughts? feelings,personalities...the hidden stuff of our private selfs? or simply self awareness?
I wonder if consciousness is even something that can be pointed at. Because if it is elusive by its very nature, then the question what is consciousness basically becomes obsolete.
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deranger
disciple of plant
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 3,222
Loc: time
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human consciousness is our awareness, our ability to perceive and observe. the more aware we become of awareness, the more conscious we become... this is the importance of meditation and self-reflection.
i feel human consciousness is connected earth consciousness, without the life of earth we would not be able to be conscious. i see this earth as one conscious organism, as everything is alive, dynamic and growing. without earth we would cease to be conscious. consciousness exists on many levels, many of which the human mind could never conceptualize.
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new progressive dubstep mix 
"you're in a boat, you choose the color of the boat
the boat's on the ocean
the ocean represents your spirit, your emotions, and your life
and the life that you're living is the boat, you're in the boat
you have an anchor, that you don't know you have, it's an invisible anchor
when you see it, that's when you'll be seen"
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deranger
disciple of plant
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 3,222
Loc: time
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Re: What is Consciousness? [Re: Tchan909]
#8052880 - 02/21/08 05:36 PM (8 months, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tchan909 said:
That much is obvious. I'm planning to pursue a career in neuropsychology.
why? you think by receiving more conceptual information your understanding of consciousness will grow? i see it as a distraction. i plan to pursue a career in silence.
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new progressive dubstep mix
"you're in a boat, you choose the color of the boat
the boat's on the ocean
the ocean represents your spirit, your emotions, and your life
and the life that you're living is the boat, you're in the boat
you have an anchor, that you don't know you have, it's an invisible anchor
when you see it, that's when you'll be seen"
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backfromthedead
Activated
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Re: What is Consciousness? [Re: deranger]
#8052885 - 02/21/08 05:37 PM (8 months, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
SyntheticMInd said:
Quote:
Tchan909 said:
That much is obvious. I'm planning to pursue a career in neuropsychology.
why? you think by receiving more conceptual information your understanding of consciousness will grow? i see it as a distraction. i plan to pursue a career in silence.
 
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Entropymancer
Saint of Circumstance
Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 5,373
Loc: PNW
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Re: What is Consciousness? [Re: Tchan909]
#8052892 - 02/21/08 05:39 PM (8 months, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tchan909 said:
But what is the substance of your thought? How do those little synapses become the things that you experience? Your perspective? Clearly the brain functions somewhat like a computer, and the activities of its structures can be discerned, but that simply cannot satisfy the need to know what awareness is
Alright, that was bugging at my brain, and here's what came out:
The substance of thought is the mind and the molecules and energy contained therein... I don't think you can break it down any further than that... there's not any one thing that is consciousness, it's what arises out of the whole.
That's like asking what's the basic substance of life. The basic substance is the whole living body... sure life stops if you take out the heart or the brain, but that doesn't make either of these more fundamental to what life is; life is just the combination of all of the processes that occur in a living being... we can ask more specific questions about the different components of life (ie different organs), but life itself is irreducible...
It's the same with consciousness... consciousness is irreducible; we can look at particular aspects of consciousness, and we can try to tease apart the particulars of these processes, but I don't know that's going to come any closer to really answering what awareness is... but I don't know what the question can be answered in the broad terms that it's stated.
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Bufotenin
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Tchan909
Carpe DM
Registered: 07/11/06
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I don't plan on being silent.
Maybe I haven't phrased myself correctly, but it's just not as simple as the sum of its parts.
--------------------
not necessarily stoned, but... beautiful.
The Albert Hofmann Collection
Doctors and other wizards are forbidden under Martian Law!
Edited by Tchan909 (02/21/08 05:40 PM)
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Entropymancer
Saint of Circumstance
Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 5,373
Loc: PNW
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Re: What is Consciousness? [Re: deranger]
#8052902 - 02/21/08 05:40 PM (8 months, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
SyntheticMInd said:
why? you think by receiving more conceptual information your understanding of consciousness will grow? i see it as a distraction. i plan to pursue a career in silence.
 I think maybe you said it better than I.
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Bufotenin
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deranger
disciple of plant
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 3,222
Loc: time
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Re: What is Consciousness? [Re: Tchan909]
#8052930 - 02/21/08 05:47 PM (8 months, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tchan909 said:
I don't plan on being silent.
silence brings awareness, without awareness how do you plan on gaining any knowledge of consciousness?
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new progressive dubstep mix
"you're in a boat, you choose the color of the boat
the boat's on the ocean
the ocean represents your spirit, your emotions, and your life
and the life that you're living is the boat, you're in the boat
you have an anchor, that you don't know you have, it's an invisible anchor
when you see it, that's when you'll be seen"
|
Entropymancer
Saint of Circumstance
Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 5,373
Loc: PNW
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Re: What is Consciousness? [Re: Tchan909]
#8052949 - 02/21/08 05:53 PM (8 months, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tchan909 said:
Maybe I haven't phrased myself correctly, but it's just not as simple as the sum of its parts.
Really? How do you know? Because I bet proving that would be worth a tenured position somewhere.
Edit: In fact, I don't see how it can be anything other than the whole of its parts, without invoking magical explanations like aether. We could always just say that consciousness is produced by the aether in the space between atoms in the brain.
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Bufotenin
PiHKAL|TiHKAL|PCPiHKAL|Rhodium
DMT Extraction|Jungle Spice|DMT - FASA Method
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Edited by Entropymancer (02/21/08 05:57 PM)
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