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 Cameron
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 Feeling intellectually superior?
#8086197 - 02/29/08 01:31 PM (8 months, 18 days ago) |
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First of all, what impact do you think drugs have on the human brain? Most drugs, as far as my understanding goes, are chemicals (poisons) designed by nature to prevent mammals from ingesting plants or seeds. How do you interpret the changes these chemicals cause in your brain/thinking/perception? I've never been able to convince myself that these chemicals expand the mind at all, but rather that they take away from our ability to comprehend and understand (and I'm talking rationalization here, not discussing feelings or intuitions or other things that can only be said but not seen or heard or proven).
Now, my little brother is a drug enthusiast. He believes that drugs open pathways in the mind that result in a more intelligent/critical thinker, compared to a non-drug user. He smokes pot and quickly develops these 'theories' on the Universe and our planet, on human beings in general and whatever other topics catch his interest. Honestly speaking, I can refute 95% of his theories with plain common sense, a minimal amount of research, or just by asking someone who has asked the same question and actually taken the time to find the correct answer. I try to explain these things to him and he responds with something harsh and negative, like accusing me of always trying to be right, or always trying to make him look like an idiot.
I guess I'm trying to say that I believe drugs induce a false sense of understanding, which may result in a greatly reduced drive to actually understand the truth behind complex subjects...
Fuck, I don't know, I can't even get my thoughts straight (I do drugs BTW).
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 backfromthedead
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 Re: Feeling intellectually superior? [Re: Cameron]
#8086213 - 02/29/08 01:36 PM (8 months, 18 days ago) |
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I think everybody is entitled to their own beliefs, no??
I personally feel that certain 'drugs' can lend insight into the nature of reality and the make up of the psyche.
I also know that those susceptible can suffer life changing schizophrenic episodes.
I myself try to embrace this brain state as a transformative stage of break down and reconstruction. Symbolic death and rebirth. The hero's journey if you will.
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Edited by backfromthedead (02/29/08 01:49 PM)
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NiamhNyx
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Re: Feeling intellectually superior? [Re: Cameron]
#8086257 - 02/29/08 01:47 PM (8 months, 18 days ago) |
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Drugs don't induce a false sense of understanding, intellectual laziness and flakiness are more to blame, imo.
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TacticalBongRip
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Re: Feeling intellectually superior? [Re: Cameron]
#8086301 - 02/29/08 02:00 PM (8 months, 18 days ago) |
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Feelings of intellectual superiority may arise after consumption of certain drugs because they can let one see things in a different way, such as through some sort of revelation. Afterwards, the user may look back and scoff at some of the beliefs they held before consumption.
I think this is where feelings of intellectual superiority from drug consumption originates from, and I have had friends that act in similar ways. What I think they fail to realize is while they may have learned something new (or not) it is but the tip of the iceberg in terms of knowledge that can be attained, and so to feel superior over others for obtaining a morsel of knowledge just shows that they are probably still in the early stages of their path to understanding.
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backfromthedead
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'...so to feel superior over others for obtaining a morsel of knowledge just shows that they are probably still in the early stages of their path to understanding.'
Stumbling into the history of entheogen usage in world religion is empowering and debilitating. Creates a great sense of connection but alienates as it creates an us and them mentality. ie: 'in the know' as opposed to not.
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Cameron
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Quote:
backfromthedead said:
I think everybody is entitled to their own beliefs, no??
I personally feel that certain 'drugs' can lend insight into the nature of reality and the make up of the psyche.
I also know that those susceptible can suffer life changing schizophrenic episodes.
I myself try to embrace this brain state as a transformative stage of break down and reconstruction. Symbolic death and rebirth. The hero's journey if you will.
Everyone's definitely entitled to their own beliefs, and I don't want to attempt to impose my own views on other people, but I just see a lot of people come out of an intense drug experience with radical views that have little to no base in reality. They tend to accept these views as solidly as they accepted their previous views, without questioning their validity. Maybe these types of people are just looking to belong to a specific group? Take on a certain mindset and support a new cause?
Or maybe I'm just talking to the wrong people.
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Cameron
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Quote:
backfromthedead said:
'...so to feel superior over others for obtaining a morsel of knowledge just shows that they are probably still in the early stages of their path to understanding.'
Stumbling into the history of entheogen usage in world religion is empowering and debilitating. Creates a great sense of connection but alienates as it creates an us and them mentality. ie: 'in the know' as opposed to not.
That really strikes a cord. The 'us and them' mentality that a lot of drug users carry I think contributes to the possible feelings of superiority that drug use may support. Some people seem to feel as if they've been allowed a look into this vast world of knowledge and understanding that drugs can offer. Like a gateway into the depths of the mind that would otherwise remain locked. I believe that drugs can be an effective tool in breaking down mental barriers and accepting new thoughts/ideas, but certainly not used alone.
I guess Niam stated it best.
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backfromthedead
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Re: Feeling intellectually superior? [Re: Cameron]
#8086357 - 02/29/08 02:13 PM (8 months, 18 days ago) |
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'...with radical views that have little to no base in reality.'
I guess it depends on how you define your reality.
Could you give an example of some of the drug inspired views that you have heard that don't fit your model??
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backfromthedead
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'Some people seem to feel as if they've been allowed a look into this vast world of knowledge and understanding that drugs can offer. Like a gateway into the depths of the mind that would otherwise remain locked.'
The usually unconscious material is real. It is seemingly only when you enter into an altered state that this material becomes present. Not to say that its accurate information seems more like pure imagination mixed with heightened awareness.
The gateway that you speak of has been called 'the doors of perception', the heavens, the akashic record, the spirit world, etc.
I feel that it is ultimately a part of the brain...
Our brain a natural product of our environment.
Maybe more to it than we think.
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MushroomTrip
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Re: Feeling intellectually superior? [Re: Cameron]
#8086414 - 02/29/08 02:29 PM (8 months, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
First of all, what impact do you think drugs have on the human brain? Most drugs, as far as my understanding goes, are chemicals (poisons) designed by nature to prevent mammals from ingesting plants or seeds. How do you interpret the changes these chemicals cause in your brain/thinking/perception? I've never been able to convince myself that these chemicals expand the mind at all, but rather that they take away from our ability to comprehend and understand (and I'm talking rationalization here, not discussing feelings or intuitions or other things that can only be said but not seen or heard or proven).
Now, my little brother is a drug enthusiast. He believes that drugs open pathways in the mind that result in a more intelligent/critical thinker, compared to a non-drug user. He smokes pot and quickly develops these 'theories' on the Universe and our planet, on human beings in general and whatever other topics catch his interest. Honestly speaking, I can refute 95% of his theories with plain common sense, a minimal amount of research, or just by asking someone who has asked the same question and actually taken the time to find the correct answer. I try to explain these things to him and he responds with something harsh and negative, like accusing me of always trying to be right, or always trying to make him look like an idiot.
I don't think that either of these assertions are correct.
Drugs don't improve the quality of your thinking, as well as they don't make it worse. Our REACTIONS to them however, can do that.
This can easily explain why the SAME substance has different effects on different people and even different effect on the same individual at different times.
Drugs don't bring an outside consciousness into our own, they reveal hidden aspects of our own consciousness.
It's easy to think you found the meaning of life (I'm talking about your brother's case) on drugs, especially when one isn't used to make use of reason. What he does is far from being critical thinking.
I don't think that it's preferable to adopt any of these ideas, because both of them reflect a distorted view on reality. If in your case your comprehension skills become smaller when on drugs, it doesn't mean that it is the same for everybody else. Hence it's lack of validity.
Quote:
I guess I'm trying to say that I believe drugs induce a false sense of understanding, which may result in a greatly reduced drive to actually understand the truth behind complex subjects...
No again.
Drugs are only some tools and we can reach our deepest thoughts through them, if we know how to use them we can make the xest of every experience and find a bunch of interesting stuff about our consciousness. 
Thinking that all they do is to induce a false sense of understanding is a preconceived idea, and one which can hold you back from exploring so many aspects of reality.
Quote:
Fuck, I don't know, I can't even get my thoughts straight (I do drugs BTW).
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This party is old and uninviting
Participants all in black and white
You enter in fullblown technicolor
Nothing is the same after tonight 
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Cameron
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The first thing that comes to mind is a clip my brother showed me yesterday. It was Joe Rogan (the guy who hosted Fear Factor), talking about DMT. Apparently he's a drug enthusiast, and he was sharing his views about DMT and it's connection to life and meaning on a radio talk show. He believes that DMT, which we produce in our brains while we sleep, is the cause of human growth and acceleration. He listed a lot of subjects (he's one of those fast talkers who doesn't really pause while he speaks, he just keeps talking until he's talked so much that people are left dumbfounded... or he was chugging Red Bull), like: how we constantly advance weapons, technology, medicine, etc etc and we keep moving forward and spreading and multiplying. He compared us to bacteria and went into some detail about how we are slowly covering the planet. Then he started talking about the effects of DMT, how it's like a dream that you can't really remember. He talked about the shapes and patterns and 'aliens' and voices you hear and the purpose of life, etc, etc.
Then he ended his speech by saying that maybe the dream state (induced by DMT while you sleep or smoke the substance itself) is more real than the waking reality we experience, that maybe the true reason behind everything is this dream state, and that we are all connected for that minuscule amount of time each night in this 'DMT grid network'.
I couldn't even take anything he said seriously, because all I could think was 'Well obviously we advance, we're constantly at war with our neighbors. We develop new weapons because we want to hold the most power and influence, we develop new technologies to improve our comfort level, we develop new products because consumerism drives our society and has probably driven many societies past.'
Just little things like that... I see it all the time...
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backfromthedead
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Re: Feeling intellectually superior? [Re: Cameron]
#8086443 - 02/29/08 02:40 PM (8 months, 18 days ago) |
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I've seen the clip.
Dude has a deprivation tank in his house. He's into it.
You should really read DMT: The Spirit Molecule by Rick Strassman.
Personally I find it encouraging to see a head amongst the herd.
At least he's fired it up and taken it for a spin.
If you thought those ideas were challenging...
Lets just say that his ideas aren't unique.
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Tchan909
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Re: Feeling intellectually superior? [Re: Cameron]
#8086451 - 02/29/08 02:41 PM (8 months, 18 days ago) |
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I've seen that clip too. I'll have you know Joe Rogan isn't a leading authority on DMT - or anything else, for that matter, aside from eating maggots on national television.
Drugs don't improve critical thinking, but I'm rather convinced that psychedelics (and weed, and MDMA) can be very good for a person's mental health in the right circumstances. They are also quite a wonderful muse.
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not necessarily stoned, but... beautiful.
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Edited by Tchan909 (02/29/08 02:50 PM)
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backfromthedead
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Re: Feeling intellectually superior? [Re: Tchan909]
#8086464 - 02/29/08 02:45 PM (8 months, 18 days ago) |
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'I'll have you know Joe Rogan isn't a leading authority on DMT - or anything else, for that matter, aside from eating maggots on national television.'
I thought he was the authority on the subject.
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Tchan909
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Oh my no. Joe Rogan is the host of Fear Factor. He just happens to have smoked DMT and talked about it on Howard Stern, or something.
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not necessarily stoned, but... beautiful.
The Albert Hofmann Collection
Doctors and other wizards are forbidden under Martian Law!
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backfromthedead
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Re: Feeling intellectually superior? [Re: Tchan909]
#8086482 - 02/29/08 02:50 PM (8 months, 18 days ago) |
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It was a joke.
 
That made me chuckle.
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Cameron
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It seemed to me like he was trying to find meaning (real meaning) in the drugs he ingests, and my immediate reaction was that he was misguided and probably consciously ignoring other possible answers to the questions he posed, simply because he was content with his version.
Every time I hear something similar to Joe Rogan's speech, I hear that voice in my head telling me that drugs are poison, nature didn't intend for us to ingest them, and that they aren't the path to true enlightenment (that being the understanding of everything unknown, to me at least). I just can't help but connect drug use with other things that I feel often lull people into a false sense of 'understanding', when I can only see it as something wholly separated from the natural human experience (religion being another thing that people base their lives and beliefs on, but believing in a religion is essentially believing in another invention of mankind, basing your thoughts of the world on something that can't be seen or heard or proven).
Anyways, I know I'm rambling now...
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Tchan909
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What can I say? Sarcasm is hard to pick up in text form. 
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not necessarily stoned, but... beautiful.
The Albert Hofmann Collection
Doctors and other wizards are forbidden under Martian Law!
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Icelander
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Re: Feeling intellectually superior? [Re: Tchan909]
#8086502 - 02/29/08 02:53 PM (8 months, 18 days ago) |
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Try harder.
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
embrace death in all the ways it comes no matter how soft or hard. cruel ,tragic,weak,light, gentle, ect how ever. thats life
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Tchan909
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Re: Feeling intellectually superior? [Re: Cameron]
#8086505 - 02/29/08 02:54 PM (8 months, 18 days ago) |
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Your theory certainly doesn't work here on account of DMT being not a poison, but an established human neurotransmitter. In fact, DMT CAN'T function as a poison, being that it is inactive orally.
Psychedelics force us to reconsider our beliefs, this much is for certain. Maybe you yourself are the one feeling intellectually superior, so convinced that your little brother's tripped-out musings are inherently devoid of any meaning or rightness.
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not necessarily stoned, but... beautiful.
The Albert Hofmann Collection
Doctors and other wizards are forbidden under Martian Law!
Edited by Tchan909 (02/29/08 02:58 PM)
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