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 Ritalin_boy
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 Adam and Eve
#8453741 - 05/28/08 02:33 AM (5 months, 23 days ago) |
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There is a strong symbolic connection between human reproduction and 'fruiting' of fruit trees; 'fruit of his/her loins', women 'bear' children, trees 'bear' fruit, babies and fruit are the offspring that seek to continue the genetics of their species, both are pure and sweet...
I've for a long time wondered why no one considered reproduction as the forbidden 'fruit' of the garden of eden? i think its easily as logical AND far more symbolic (something religious texts are very 'into').
As i see it; God creates the earth in 6 days give or take. but then he realises that he's created all this amazing beautiful stuff, and no ones around to see it. and something this stunning surely NEEDS an audience. so he creates man and woman. But, since he's God, and sees, knows and is all, he knows that these ruffians with their freewill and adaptive intelligence are likely to destroy his glorious creations, of course he doesnt want any extra of them. so he threatens them with peril of death as mortals should the copulate on his freshly mown eden-grass. but humans being what they are... you know what you are.
I don't want the bible rewritten to say 'vagina' instead of 'fruit', but i just feel that since the whole bible is so symbol-laden, that it makes sense that such a powerful, central moment of the story would be included in that symbolism.
Mostly i like this idea because every day im convinced that if there was a god, he would surely be disgusted and ashamed of what humans continue to do to eachother, and the earth, with no improvement in sight any time soon. It would make sense that if he was all knowing, he'd not have wanted it to turn out like this.
finally,
Why would god create fruit, if not to be eaten? why test the silly mortals if, since he is god, he would know what they would choose. why not put it out of their reach? what an exercize in futility.
(im not a practicing christian, suprised as you may be.)
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blewmeanie
שמע ישראל יהוה
 
Registered: 10/01/06
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Check out the Apocalypse of Adam from the Nag Hammadi library.
Edit: link
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All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusions is called a philosopher.
Edited by blewmeanie (05/28/08 07:15 AM)
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zouden
Neuroscientist
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Quote:
I don't want the bible rewritten to say 'vagina' instead of 'fruit'
I do, now. 
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Wave upon wave of demented avengers
Marched cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream
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gluke bastid
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But Eve was the one who was tempted to eat the fruit by the snake and then shared it with Adam.
Following your analogy...are you saying that Eve discovered masturbation and then asked Adam to have sex with her? And what does the snake represent? If the snake is a phallic symbol, why is it divorced from Adam?
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Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
- Thomas Paine
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Urb
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Someone told me a story recently about Adam & Eve having children.
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"Most people don't know how they're gonna feel from one moment to the next. But a dope fiend has a pretty good idea. All you gotta do is look at the labels on the little bottles."~ Bob
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backfromthedead
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Fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil
and fruit from the tree of life (eternal life)...
I'm thinking... Burning Bush and... 'Here eat this scroll...'
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
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Do not eat human babies
(sorry, couldn't resist)
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Though lovers be lost love shall not;
And death shall have no dominion
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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 23,382
Loc: underbelly
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I don't want the bible rewritten to say 'vagina' instead of 'fruit',
I do and I want photos too.
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
embrace death in all the ways it comes no matter how soft or hard. cruel ,tragic,weak,light, gentle, ect how ever. thats life
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QCaz
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Re: Adam and Eve [Re: Icelander]
#8458644 - 05/29/08 05:46 AM (5 months, 22 days ago) |
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Time for some of the serious debate this forum is SUPPOSED to contain:
1. Eve ate the fruit from the tree of knowlege, and gave some to Adam - the result of this is that they realised they were naked and grew ashamed of this fact and tried to cover their naked-ness. Thats how god knew they'd eaten the fruit cause all of a sudden Adam was emabarrassed of his tackle. This MAY support your "sex" theory, if they suddenly realised what went where, they might have been embarrassed. BUT I think there is a refence of other knowlege gained from eating the fruit. (I'm too lazy to track down my bible though.. should work on that apathy of mine!)
2. As punishment the bible states that god threw them out of the garden of eden & into the wilderness where they had to toil to grow food, and as ultimate punishment he gave great pain to women in child-birth because Eve ate the fruit first. This tends to make me think that people were always MEANT to breed, as why would chilbirth have not been painful before this happened other than to encourage breeding & sex?? And if people were never meant to breed - wouldnt it say something like "as punishment I made eve HAVE children & it was extremly painful. from childbirth untill they turn 18 & move out"
and it does specificaly say that childbirth was made painful from then on. It also DOES NOT say that there had been no children born BEFORE this incident - to Eve or any other people in the garden.
3. Adam and Eve were the FIRST people god made - nowhere does it state they were the ONLY people he made, and does not try to claim at any point that all people came FROM adam and Eve. This means: Why would god make extra people if they wernt meant to breed & have a breeding population with enough genetic diversity to ensure the survival of the speces.
4. Why would god have given us such a complex reproductive system if it were never to have been used??
And finaly, the tree of knowlege was placed in the garden especially to tempt the people. It is a running theme throught he bible that god continually tests his subjects to see if they are worthy of his rewards or if they are righteous and just etc etc. So basically, he put it there to see if we WOULD trip up. Which means - we were meant to breed & re-produce weather we ate the fruit (or discovered sex) ANYWAY.
Which means that I seriously doubt that fruit is some symbolic code for sex.
Have you considered that perhaps women are said to bear children & "fruit of my loins" etc are just verbal expressions of reproduction in the most scientific language of the day - back in the midle ages or whenever and its just stuck.
Or perhaps it is in response to Women now having painful childbirth as a result of eating the forbidden fruit that it was givin similar terms as some sort of verbal homage to the fact? As the painful childbirth thingy was the main punishment for women - and working hard to get food etc was the main punishment for men??
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QCaz
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Re: Adam and Eve [Re: Icelander]
#8458647 - 05/29/08 05:50 AM (5 months, 22 days ago) |
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Time for some of the serious debate this forum is SUPPOSED to contain:
1. Eve ate the fruit from the tree of knowlege, and gave some to Adam - the result of this is that they realised they were naked and grew ashamed of this fact and tried to cover their naked-ness. Thats how god knew they'd eaten the fruit cause all of a sudden Adam was emabarrassed of his tackle. This MAY support your "sex" theory, if they suddenly realised what went where, they might have been embarrassed. BUT I think there is a refence of other knowlege gained from eating the fruit. (I'm too lazy to track down my bible though.. should work on that apathy of mine!)
2. As punishment the bible states that god threw them out of the garden of eden & into the wilderness where they had to toil to grow food, and as ultimate punishment he gave great pain to women in child-birth because Eve ate the fruit first. This tends to make me think that people were always MEANT to breed, as why would chilbirth have not been painful before this happened other than to encourage breeding & sex?? And if people were never meant to breed - wouldnt it say something like "as punishment I made eve HAVE children & it was extremly painful. from childbirth untill they turn 18 & move out"
and it does specificaly say that childbirth was made painful from then on. It also DOES NOT say that there had been no children born BEFORE this incident - to Eve or any other people in the garden.
3. Adam and Eve were the FIRST people god made - nowhere does it state they were the ONLY people he made, and does not try to claim at any point that all people came FROM adam and Eve. This means: Why would god make extra people if they wernt meant to breed & have a breeding population with enough genetic diversity to ensure the survival of the speces.
4. Why would god have given us such a complex reproductive system if it were never to have been used??
And finaly, the tree of knowlege was placed in the garden especially to tempt the people. It is a running theme throught he bible that god continually tests his subjects to see if they are worthy of his rewards or if they are righteous and just etc etc. So basically, he put it there to see if we WOULD trip up. Which means - we were meant to breed & re-produce weather we ate the fruit (or discovered sex) ANYWAY.
Which means that I seriously doubt that fruit is some symbolic code for sex.
Have you considered that perhaps women are said to bear children & "fruit of my loins" etc are just verbal expressions of reproduction in the most scientific language of the day - back in the midle ages or whenever and its just stuck.
Or perhaps it is in response to Women now having painful childbirth as a result of eating the forbidden fruit that it was givin similar terms as some sort of verbal homage to the fact? As the painful childbirth thingy was the main punishment for women - and working hard to get food etc was the main punishment for men??
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blewmeanie
שמע ישראל יהוה
Registered: 10/01/06
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Re: Adam and Eve [Re: QCaz]
#8458772 - 05/29/08 07:23 AM (5 months, 22 days ago) |
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This might provide a little more clarity on the the parshah (the first 6 books of genesis) link
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All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusions is called a philosopher.
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TheHappieHippies
Uber-Goober
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What about Lilith? 
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blewmeanie
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She is mentioned throughout sumerian legends which judaism borrows from heavily.
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All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusions is called a philosopher.
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TheHappieHippies
Uber-Goober
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I thought, which means I could have been wrong, that Lilith was first accounted for by the Kabbalah.
Either way, that bitch doesn't seem to like me much...
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blewmeanie
שמע ישראל יהוה
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Lol...angry demon woman
The Sumerian legends, and myth predate judaism (if I have this right, its been a while since I've studied it) by about 3000 years.
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All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusions is called a philosopher.
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backfromthedead
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blewmeanie
שמע ישראל יהוה
Registered: 10/01/06
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Nice find, where is it from?
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All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusions is called a philosopher.
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backfromthedead
Activated
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Quote:
blewmeanie said:
Nice find, where is it from?
12-13th Century France, I believe.
Eating the fruit was the Gnostic experience, imo. Gnosis.
Shhhnake is God. Period. God is demiurge...
'...in unconscious imitation of the superior Pleromatic realm.'
'...the goal of Gnostic movements was typically the awakening of this spark, which permitted a return by the subject to the superior, non-material realities which were its primal source.'
-wiki
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ApErfectPuzzle
Registered: 05/28/08
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could the fruit possibly be symbolic of a natural psychedelic found in the "Garden." think about it. Our most primitive emotion is fear. It is the very emotion responsible for fight or flight, which has been natures best way of self preservation in times of life or death situations. Maybe Adam and eve feared that eating the apple was their only chance for survival because they had eaten everything else. Where does fear come from? It stems from doubt an emotion that only humans posses. If we accept that than it would be reasonable to say that eve, the more emotional of the two, was the first to doubt that god may have overlooked something. As such eve ate the fruit and Adam saw nothing happened so he also ate the "fruit of survival" Some time may have passed before they started having hellish visions and thoughts of themselves dying. When they returned to "normal reality" they would have thought what they went through was Gods attempt to kill them and since they didn't die, it would only be reasonable to assume that God failed and that humans are more powerful than God because they were able to survive Gods greatest attempt at murder. This would have opened a new perspective in the minds of this early society. A perspective that would allow them to think for themselves a perspective that says don't believe everything you hear. They would now believe that they were liberated from the rules of the "all mighty." Little did they know, they were actually falling further and further away from the truth and liberation. And that truth and liberation is God. I don't believe that this was exactly how things went down, but it does help to unearth the true symbolism of the "fruit"; forbidden then, a possible need now.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 10,304
Loc: PNW
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Paragraphs, please.
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No man is free who is not master of himself.
~Epictetus.
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