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 danlennon3
living is easywith eyesclosed.....
Registered: 10/29/02
Posts: 8,044
Last seen: 6 hours, 4 minutes
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 Mind and Soul
#8080836 - 02/28/08 09:58 AM (8 months, 19 days ago) |
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Is it the same thing?
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"the shnozberries taste like shnozberries"
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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 23,382
Loc: underbelly
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Mind and sole.
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
embrace death in all the ways it comes no matter how soft or hard. cruel ,tragic,weak,light, gentle, ect how ever. thats life
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Entropymancer
Saint of Circumstance
Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 5,342
Loc: PNW
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I think that's a pretty hard question to answer until someone actually substantiates the existence of a soul.
The mind may be mysterious to a degree, but we can observe the physical organ where it occurs, and see that changes in this organ (the brain) affect cognition.
Where's the soul at?
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Bufotenin
PiHKAL|TiHKAL|PCPiHKAL|Rhodium
DMT Extraction|Jungle Spice|DMT - FASA Method
Amanita muscaria Hunting Guide
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 10,304
Loc: PNW
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Observing changes within the brain does not prove the existence of the mind. It would be more accurate to describe it as "brain activity" than to claim that such activity indicates that there is more than an "organ."
This is the equivalent of someone claiming proof of the existence of the soul via demonstrating human actions such as charity, cooperation, religious practice, etc...
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No man is free who is not master of himself.
~Epictetus.
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demius
heeeeeeehaaaaaw!
Registered: 08/18/05
Posts: 25,747
Loc: Earth
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would/could you explain to me why it really matters?
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
 
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 7,249
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 hours, 14 minutes
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 Re: Mind and Soul [Re: demius]
#8080951 - 02/28/08 10:43 AM (8 months, 19 days ago) |
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For the same reasons anything else does?
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This party is old and uninviting
Participants all in black and white
You enter in fullblown technicolor
Nothing is the same after tonight 
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 23,382
Loc: underbelly
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And that is?
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
embrace death in all the ways it comes no matter how soft or hard. cruel ,tragic,weak,light, gentle, ect how ever. thats life
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 7,249
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 hours, 14 minutes
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Re: Mind and Soul [Re: Icelander]
#8081044 - 02/28/08 11:06 AM (8 months, 19 days ago) |
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Curiosity.
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This party is old and uninviting
Participants all in black and white
You enter in fullblown technicolor
Nothing is the same after tonight
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 23,382
Loc: underbelly
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Just wanted to hear you say it sweetness.
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
embrace death in all the ways it comes no matter how soft or hard. cruel ,tragic,weak,light, gentle, ect how ever. thats life
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danlennon3
living is easywith eyesclosed.....
Registered: 10/29/02
Posts: 8,044
Last seen: 6 hours, 4 minutes
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Re: Mind and Soul [Re: Icelander]
#8081072 - 02/28/08 11:14 AM (8 months, 19 days ago) |
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So if there is no such thing as a mind, how come so many people lose theirs?
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"the shnozberries taste like shnozberries"
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 7,249
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 hours, 14 minutes
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Re: Mind and Soul [Re: Icelander]
#8081078 - 02/28/08 11:15 AM (8 months, 19 days ago) |
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This party is old and uninviting
Participants all in black and white
You enter in fullblown technicolor
Nothing is the same after tonight
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Entropymancer
Saint of Circumstance
Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 5,342
Loc: PNW
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Re: Mind and Soul [Re: Veritas]
#8081086 - 02/28/08 11:18 AM (8 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said:
Observing changes within the brain does not prove the existence of the mind. It would be more accurate to describe it as "brain activity" than to claim that such activity indicates that there is more than an "organ."
This is the equivalent of someone claiming proof of the existence of the soul via demonstrating human actions such as charity, cooperation, religious practice, etc...
You can debate the semantics all you want, but it's abundantly clear that cognition occurs in the brain. If you want to debate that, well,  .
I'm making the assumption that when a person says "mind", they are referring to the central cognitive functions of a living person. If you have a different conception of the mind, I'd like to hear it.
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Bufotenin
PiHKAL|TiHKAL|PCPiHKAL|Rhodium
DMT Extraction|Jungle Spice|DMT - FASA Method
Amanita muscaria Hunting Guide
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 7,249
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 hours, 14 minutes
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Quote:
I'm making the assumption that when a person says "mind", they are referring to the central cognitive functions of a living person. If you have a different conception of the mind, I'd like to hear it.
Yes.
And for for as far as we know, the cognitive functions are provided by the brain.
I see no contradiction in here.
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This party is old and uninviting
Participants all in black and white
You enter in fullblown technicolor
Nothing is the same after tonight
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Lion
I Am That I Am
Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 3,671
Loc: The Becoming Tree
Last seen: 58 minutes, 57 seconds
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Re: Mind and Soul [Re: Icelander]
#8081194 - 02/28/08 11:46 AM (8 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Mind and sole.
Your most complete post to date. 
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One day Ananda, who had been thinking deeply about things for a while, turned to the Buddha and exclaimed, "Lord, I've been thinking - spiritual friendship is at least half of the spiritual life!"
The Buddha replied: "Say not so, Ananda, say not so. Spiritual friendship is the whole of the spiritual life!"
Oh the good old days in merry old England and Europe. It was especially tasty to be a women then. Yes it certainly was better in the past.-Icelander
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 10,304
Loc: PNW
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"Cognition" and "brain activity" are the same thing, so I do not disagree with you. In your initial post, you seemed to be saying that the mind existed, and that we could see proof of that in the activity of the brain. I was saying that the activity is all that there is, and that there was no distinction between mind and cognition as measured by brain activity.
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No man is free who is not master of himself.
~Epictetus.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 23,382
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
danlennon3 said:
So if there is no such thing as a mind, how come so many people lose theirs?
Hello That's a figure of speech. The real problem here is people not using theirs.
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
embrace death in all the ways it comes no matter how soft or hard. cruel ,tragic,weak,light, gentle, ect how ever. thats life
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AlteredAgain
♫0‰♫
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 7,760
Loc: Ω-pOint
Last seen: 13 hours, 47 minutes
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The soul is the planet. Life is born out of it.
The mind on the other hand is very peculiar.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 23,382
Loc: underbelly
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Do you just make this up as you go along?
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
embrace death in all the ways it comes no matter how soft or hard. cruel ,tragic,weak,light, gentle, ect how ever. thats life
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backfromthedead
Activated
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,590
Last seen: 3 months, 23 days
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Re: Mind and Soul [Re: Icelander]
#8081714 - 02/28/08 02:28 PM (8 months, 19 days ago) |
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Now you try...
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daytripper23
Wanker
Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 1,744
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I was just writing an essay on Gandhi's home rule last night, and this exact topic was the basis of it. Gandhi speaks of Soul force and body force, representing on one level the obvious duality of mind and matter. But the particular wording of soul-force, in the context of his essay additionally implied the duality of self and other.
soul meaning mind denotes the insubstantiality of the mind as opposed to matter-
while soul, meaning the self (as opposed to other) is the only reality one can be sure of, and so is in this way substantial while the external world is insubstantial.
Dually implied, this understanding (or rather conundrum) seemed to be the key to conceptualizing Gandhi's
ostensible paradox of passive resistence. Or at least thats what I got out of it. Gandhi says it a lot better though, you guys might want to read it.
You can find the whole book here http://www.mkgandhi.org/swarajya/coverpage.htm
The chapter I was reading was 17 on passive resistance, but I plan on eventually reading the whole thing sometime when I have the time.
note: Gandhi doesnt actually specify these dualities in the chapter as other than soul force and body force. I was just talking about what I got out of it, which was along the exact lines of the thread starter. you might not get the same idea.
Edited by daytripper23 (02/28/08 02:44 PM)
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